Station 1902

[00:00] Rob Brady: Foreign.

[00:13] Ed Mann: Welcome to our first station 1902 podcast of 2025. I'm your host, Ed man, director of training and education for Providence Today. My special guest is an old friend of mine, Rob Brady.

[00:29] We first met many years ago when he worked for the center for Local Government at the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development and I was serving as the Pennsylvania State Fire Commissioner.

[00:40] Rob, welcome to the show. Please tell our listeners more about yourself.

[00:45] Rob Brady: Well, thank you, Ed Mann, formerly known as Commissioner Mann. It's been a great ride to get to know you over the last couple years and like you said, it's been many years, probably too many we want to admit to, but thanks for the to sit down and talk to you about all the stuff going on in the fire service and EMS and other public services, about shared services and mergers and consolidations.

[01:07] But yeah, I was fortunate. I got lucky, blessed, whatever you want to call it, to get born and raised into a family of not only small business owners but also public servants.

[01:18] So I always sort of thought I was wired to do my own thing and run my own business. And my mother Jean had her own business, my dad Nan had his own business and grandparents, sets of grandparents.

[01:30] And it was many years ago growing up in a small town called McSherrystown in Adams county, close to Gettysburg. And my dad was an Army National Guard guy. He was on town council, active firemen.

[01:45] And needless to say, being raised around that, I had a lot of interest and desire to become involved in myself. And so I joined the local volunteer fire Company at 14 as a junior member.

[01:57] And over the years I've continued to be actively involved in both fire and EMS and emergency management. Also was a municipal union firefighter for seven years and I saw an opportunity to work with folks who actually wanted to change the way they delivered emergency services in their community.

[02:15] And I started in 2017, end of 2017, and it's been a pretty good ride so far. And very pleased with the amount of folks that serve today that are coming to the realization that what we've done in the past doesn't work anymore and we need to reinvent ourselves.

[02:33] And I've taken those years of experience that I've had my education, training as well, but really learning on my feet a lot at different times of what works and what doesn't work to help people and how I term it is creating the next chapter in the history of their organization.

[02:49] That sort of gives you a 40,000 foot view of my background and where I am. And of course, I've not only had the public safety, fire service and EMS background.

[03:00] But I also worked in municipal government, as you mentioned, and I worked for 10 years coordinating part of the shared services program for local government services in the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development, which all those things brought together served me quite well today in my business.

[03:16] Ed Mann: So you worked at the Department of Community and economic development for 10 years then?

[03:21] Rob Brady: Yes, for 10 years.

[03:23] And the department was an outgrowth of a merger actually of two separate agencies, departments in the Commonwealth, one for business and one for local government. And I worked on the local government side after it was put together.

[03:39] It was a great ride. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun.

[03:41] Ed Mann: So I remember when Governor Ridge.

[03:44] Rob Brady: Yeah.

[03:44] Ed Mann: Was during his first term. He's the one that brought those two organizations together as DCED as it became known. And, and I can tell you, I remember because at the time I worked for a state senator.

[03:58] I can remember meeting with local government officials and getting crucified because they, they, they did not like what Governor Ridge decided to do that and that. And they did a lot of finger wagon and said this better work or he'll never get re elected.

[04:14] So.

[04:15] Rob Brady: Well, and it was funny because I was on the local government end and I had graduated from college and was working in consulting, engineering and volunteering and of course locally involved in stuff and, and, and oh yeah, Winger finger wagging is.

[04:30] That's an understatement.

[04:33] Yeah, well, it was a bumpy road, but I will say at that point in time they did what needed to be done to make it work. So. Yeah.

[04:44] Ed Mann: And it continue, I think it continues to serve the Commonwealth wealth today. So. Yes, tip of the hat to Governor Ridge for his foresight, his forethought and insight all the way back then.

[04:56] Rob Brady: Well, and we also have to give it to Lieutenant Governor Swiker, Mark Swiker, because him being a local government guy to a certain extent and sticking his own neck out and remember, you know, going to different things and he, the poor man would be shaking his head every once in a while and.

[05:11] But they did exactly. You know, we talk about, you know, all the different things we deal with today, but you know, in a lot of ways those two guys truly, you know, were, you know, what we, you know, always used to call and still call in a lot of way or truly statesmen looking at what was going to be best for everybody.

[05:26] And, and they, and then what they said they were going to do, they actually fulfilled that. So they didn't leave anybody hanging. So they put it together Pretty well.

[05:33] Ed Mann: So, yes, and I, as I said, I think it continues to serve the Commonwealth world today.

[05:40] Rob Brady: Yeah, and I think. Yes, and I think you're correct because I don't think people a lot of times see the connection between a healthy local government and a healthy business community and business world and getting the right balance that you need and all those different things.

[05:52] And you know, I got my eyes open to a certain extent when I worked there, but how everybody really worked together because they would, you know, when I worked there, they really searched out good folks with varied backgrounds to bring in and had a lot of different wheelhouse experience that, you know, it served the Commonwealth, the, the, the, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania really well.

[06:15] Ed Mann: So, so you, you left the Commonwealth in 2015, same year I left the Commonwealth.

[06:21] Rob Brady: 2017. 2017.

[06:23] Ed Mann: Oh, 2017. Okay. All right, 2017. So you hung around for two years longer than I did. So when you left the Commonwealth, you saw the need to continue some of the services you were providing at the state.

[06:38] So you created Rob Consulting. So tell our listeners about the services that you offer.

[06:45] Rob Brady: Well, when I started what I really saw that there was a huge need for a different approach to consulting for public safety and municipal government, local government. And that's what I decided to do.

[06:56] I wanted to be, instead of just a report generating entity, I wanted to be a hands on facilitator, slash project manager type of consulting firm for folks. And that's what I really, that's what I really pride myself on, doing it differently.

[07:11] And we really engage the client on a level that's probably unique in some ways.

[07:17] And I first started with the, you know, the niche of working for the, you know, working towards, you know, starting with mergers and consolidations. And depending on where you are in the United States, merger consolidation may have different meanings, which we're going to go over here in a little bit.

[07:34] But yeah, I really started to work on mergers, consolidations and what we typically, as you know, in Pennsylvania called regionalization. And that's essentially two or more entities coming together and putting some kind of joint project together.

[07:47] And then as I was doing that, I started primarily with fire, then expanded in ems, emergency management, and then other types of public services.

[07:55] And then really looking at the concept of evaluating existing systems, not to point fingers and show where you've fallen down and done poorly, but where could you, where were your opportunities to put things that weren't working out to pasture for the lack of any other way of calling it, and to take opportunities and the things that were presenting themselves to create that Next step chapter in your history and to do a lot better than what you were doing.

[08:24] So that strategic assessment, strategy, planning, doing a lot of that kind of work for different types of agencies successfully and then assisting on a couple different other levels with different types of governance and administrative programs, different types of budget and finance and all different types of things that if you would ask me in 2017, when I started, Rob, where will you be at 2025?

[08:53] I would have like. I'd be like, no, that's not where I'm going to be. So I'm very lucky where I am and very proud of what I'm doing. And I have a really good team of folks that back me up that, that I work with.

[09:06] So it makes a difference. And, you know, we started, you know, in the last two, three years to really start doing stuff out of state and working. I had the opportunity to work with some folks when I was at the Commonwealth out of state, and we really do recently a lot more work in other states.

[09:23] They're called districts, special districts. In Pennsylvania, we call them authorities. Not every state has that ability to do it, but doing a lot of work with that. And I have several clients right now that we're working on that concept of, you know, reinventing their system and creating that next chapter.

[09:38] So we do a lot of different things.

[09:40] Ed Mann: So I'm going to go back here to when we both work for the Commonwealth. I can remember attending meetings with you were fire departments. We're talking about the possibility of consolidation and a merger or a merger.

[09:54] And what I like best about your approach to it was, was you never came across as you need to do this. It was, here are the advantages, here's where you currently are.

[10:07] At the end of the day, you can make this what you want to make it or somebody else is going to do it for you.

[10:15] Rob Brady: Right.

[10:15] Ed Mann: And. And I think that approach often softened the blow when you were meeting, when. When we were meeting with fire departments that, that we're talking about mergers and consolidations because a lot of times they had the impression, oh, gee, the state's here.

[10:30] They're going to tell us what to do. And that was never the approach. It was always, this is where you are, this is what you can do. Here are the legal limitations of what you can do.

[10:43] Ultimately, it's your decision.

[10:45] Rob Brady: Right.

[10:46] Ed Mann: And I got to say, that approach always seemed to be very receptive or well received by the folks we were meeting with.

[10:57] Rob Brady: And thank you, Commissioner, as I still call you many times. But, yeah, I mean, I learned the hard Way different times throughout my life that, you know, coming in, you know, I don't like the word expert.

[11:10] That might suit some people, but every project, every client, everybody I work with, I try to learn something. In most cases, 9 out of 10 chances I do learn something new for everybody I work with.

[11:19] And coming in with the heavy handed, I learned from some good folks. You grabbed a hold of me one or two times. I learned a lot from my dad because he was a town council guy and was a guy who tried.

[11:31] And 20 plus years later, my hometown's still trying to figure out if a regional police department would work for him. So there's different approaches to this and trying to tell somebody you have to do it is the wrong approach.

[11:44] And it works, it really works. And you have to listen to the people that you're dealing with. I see it time and time again. I'm a voracious reader and I read a lot of news articles and I try to do a little research if I can squeeze it into my schedule.

[11:59] And so many times I read about how people are just being force fed. I'm a big train buff. I get that honestly from my dad and an uncle and due to one of our family businesses.

[12:07] But it's that old, you know, do you want to get ran over by the train or do you want to ride on the train or do you want to be the engineer or conductor?

[12:14] It's better off being the guy, you know, coordinating and running than being told you have to do something. And you're right, it really softened the blow and then they understood.

[12:24] I think what was the nice thing is we're there to help them. You know, my folks that help me, the men and women that help me, you know, our approaches, we're there to help you.

[12:34] And one of the big things we get across is just like I did at the Commonwealth and everybody I deal with today is I don't work there, I don't live there, and there's a, probably a pretty good chance that I don't have any family there.

[12:46] So I don't know all the intricate details of what's going on behind the scenes. And if you don't tell us, we're not going to know where to step. And we don't want to step on landmines for the lack of anything else.

[12:56] And you and I have stodda, you and one or two good people from Pima who joined us, from the emergency management or the Bureau of EMS who joined us. We stepped on landmines and we stepped on a Couple other things at times because people didn't tell us.

[13:11] So I really try to get that point across in the first thing. And I recently picked up a client and they actually said, the reason we picked you over several other people is because that's the approach we want.

[13:22] And basically everybody else doesn't do that. So I'm like, good. So I was pretty happy. I'm excited for the. I'm excited for every project I do. So. Good.

[13:31] Ed Mann: So.

[13:31] Rob Brady: So let's.

[13:32] Ed Mann: The terms mergers and consolidations are often used interchangeably, but there is a difference. Please explain the difference between the two.

[13:42] Rob Brady: Well, I sort of. So I learned a little bit from my predecessor that ran our program in Pennsylvania. His name was. His name's Dean Fernsler. And Dean. Dean retired. And when he retired, I was fortunate to be the one that.

[13:53] The person who was hired to replace him.

[13:56] But one of the things that we sort of coined merger and consolidation in Pennsylvania, a little differently than everybody. So you have the concept of merger consolidation. You have partial consolidation, functional consolidation, regionalization, districts, authorities.

[14:11] You have all these different names depending where you are thrown around. So I break it down really simply. I look at it as you have two or more entities coming together to create something new.

[14:21] I coined the phrase cooperative partnership. But you know, what I typically explain to people, my concept and what we use successfully in Pennsylvania, and where I've tried at other places it's worked, is that concept of a merger.

[14:34] The merger is essentially one entity merging into another, and that other entity is the survivor. And they may or may not change their name. And that's not necessarily what some people want.

[14:47] So what we did was, is there was the concept of consolidation. And basically what we look at that is the consolidation method is we're going to create something brand new.

[14:56] Whether it's a volunteer corporation, whether it's a municipal government department, we're going to create something new. And the entities, the participating entities are going to. They're going to go into that new corporation brand new, no baggage, no history.

[15:10] It doesn't feel like one person or one group's running a rough shot over everybody else. We're truly starting brand new. And that can be driven by a couple different things, but we're typically seeing that that is the preferred method.

[15:25] So it. It's simple. It's, you know, you know, one entity merging into the other. And the. And that one. It's the survivor may or may not change their name in the consolidation.

[15:35] We start brand new. We start a brand new entity that never existed before. So.

[15:40] So that's the basic approaches.

[15:42] Ed Mann: All right. So I obviously have personal experience with the work.

[15:46] With the work you do because of your consulting services during the consolidation.

[15:52] Actually a merger. A former East Derry Volunteer fire company in Highland Park Hose to become the Chief Logan Volunteer Fire Department. So I'll spend a minute or two here. You know, you came and met with us on a Saturday.

[16:06] We didn't get charged a fee for you to come out and meet with us on a Saturday morning.

[16:11] We had the members and the officers of both Highland park hose and Chief Logan or East area at the meeting.

[16:19] We talked about what we would like to do. You gave us an idea of what the. The. All the legal things we would have to accomplish.

[16:28] And I think you spent probably two hours with us on a Saturday morning. After you left, we met and we decided that we were going to pursue this and that we were going to.

[16:40] To contract with you and. And your legal team to. To work through the process. So you basically, at that point, we told you, this is what we want to do.

[16:53] You gave us the guidance to be able to get it done. You took care of doing all of the legal stuff that needed to be done, all the stuff that had to be done with the Department of State and the IRS and the other state entities, which made the process a whole lot easier for us.

[17:13] But we did a lot of the work behind the scenes to create the organization.

[17:17] We ran it by you. You pointed out some pitfalls to us, some things we needed to consider. We made those changes, and the process itself was actually pretty smooth. The only thing that really hurt us in the end was, you know, we.

[17:34] We did our merger in 20, and in 20, at the end of. Got to think here now at the end of 2019.

[17:42] And of course, we wanted to do all kinds of things with the public. And then, of course, Covid hit.

[17:49] So we weren't able to do a lot of the public things we wanted to do. But in the end, we became the Chief Logan Volunteer Fire Department. And it was because you were willing to meet with us.

[18:02] You guided us through the process. You took care of all the stuff on the back end of it with all the legal entities, which made it a whole lot easier for us.

[18:12] So we knew we were doing things the right way rather than us trying as volunteers, trying to do all the heavy lifting and deal with the legal entities that had to be dealt with.

[18:23] So I'm laying that out. So I want everybody that's listening to this podcast that that's the kind of work you did for us at no time did you tell us you ought to do this.

[18:35] It was always suggestions.

[18:37] When we drafted our original bylaws, you offered some suggestions that helped us long term and continue to help the organization today. So at no time was there ever any heavy handed this is what you need to do.

[18:53] It was here's what you ought to do. So I certainly appreciate all your guidance through that process back through 2019.

[19:02] So move on here to if you had to list the three primary reasons why fire service mergers or consolidations are becoming more prevalent, what would they be?

[19:14] Rob Brady: As I said before, I do a lot of reading and I look around different parts of the country that are looking and considering this kind of stuff and just some of the challenges in general that you see.

[19:25] And it really revolves around the three basic things. People, money and the old way of doing stuff just doesn't work anymore.

[19:32] And each one of those three things, you could actually break it down in a couple subcategories and talk about many moving parts within those. But at the end of the day it's about people, money and just the way we've always done things no longer works.

[19:48] And it is forcing in some cases, as we discussed earlier, which is not necessarily the best way. But it's also a more more frequently people are starting to embrace the need that we need to re evaluate.

[20:05] We just really need to reevaluate the way we're doing things and how we're operating, how we're governing, how we're administrating.

[20:12] And it's starting, in my opinion, a good conversation in many different ways. But they're the three it's people, money and it just the way we've always done it doesn't work anymore.

[20:23] Oh, go ahead.

[20:24] Ed Mann: So would it be safe to assume then that the same applies for the EMS organizations today?

[20:31] Rob Brady: Positively, EMS emergency management, depending on how it's delivered locally. And I always look at things sort of the, you know, the way we break down, you know, government in America, you know, to the basic, you know, federal government, state government, local government and locals, you know, anything counties and below.

[20:48] And I think when we look at it from, you know, those aspects, a lot of things don't work. And here's the other thing that I think is driving it as well is we've made the assumption, I think incorrectly many times that somebody else is going to solve our problem problems for us.

[21:03] We have to do it ourselves. And when I say that, you know, whether you're career or volunteer fire, ems, emergency management, some other public service of some kind, if we don't decide to take a step forward in an improvement process.

[21:17] Somebody else is going to do it for us, and we're just not going to like a lot of times what the results are. So it's better than be. It's better being the engineer than being ran over by the train.

[21:27] But, yeah, people, people, money. And it just doesn't work anymore.

[21:32] Ed Mann: Well, that reminds me, years ago, I met with, at the time, there were four fire stations, and I had a meeting with one of the four fire stations, and one of the older members who I expected would have kind of leveled the shotgun at me that I was even suggesting such a thing as a merger consolidation, said to me, said to the group, so what you're telling us is we had the opportunity to control our own destiny or somebody else is going to do it for us.

[22:03] And obviously the answer to that question was yes.

[22:07] Rob Brady: And it amazes me how many times people don't see that. They really don't. And I'm just finishing up a really good project, and I won't mention any names to protect the innocent because we always tried to make sure that things that were going on were worked out internally first, because our goal was not to burn anybody's world down, because most problems were surmountable.

[22:30] I mean, they really are and challenges.

[22:34] But I'm working on a project with three fire departments in an EMS organization, and I was really sort of surprised by some of the conversations. And I asked, well, why are we sitting here today?

[22:44] And you didn't do this 10 years ago or longer? And they basically all said, well, the people who were the hindrances are no longer involved.

[22:52] And it's, We've dealt with that different places, like you just said.

[22:57] It is, it is a tough question to ask, but there are a lot of people out there who will continuously, you know, throw roadblocks up because they do not want any kind of change.

[23:09] So it can be a challenge. And, you know, like I said, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're career, volunteer or combination. I, you know, earlier in 2024, I helped, you know, I was asked to talk to some folks.

[23:20] It was two fully career departments, and I was asked to talk. You know, union reached out to me through a personal connection and sat down with the, with some of the guys.

[23:28] And, you know, they came to realization the same thing. It's like, they probably need to drive the bus. And this wasn't in Pennsylvania. It was out of state. And. And I said, yeah, guys, I mean, that's what you got to do you have to drive the, you know, the bus, drive the train, you know, whatever you want to do it?

[23:42] Because if you don't and you're not part of the conversation, somebody's going to, somebody's going to do it for you.

[23:48] Ed Mann: All right, so.

[23:50] So, Rob, walk our listeners through the typical process. From the time you get a call and someone says, hey, we want you to come talk to us until our merger consolidation becomes, quote, unquote, official.

[24:02] Rob Brady: Right. And real quick, I'll start with one thing that you had mentioned with your experience working with my consulting firm and the folks I work with, is we're going to do the work that you need us to do.

[24:14] So we do things a couple different ways, you know, so we're just not going to come in. You got to do it our prepackaged way or we're not interested. So we do a lot, lot of different things, which you mentioned.

[24:23] We definitely work with the client. So that, that's really, you know, we drive that by asking the question, what do you, what do you want to do? What are you trying to do?

[24:31] That's the first step. Why are you calling us? Why do you want to meet with us?

[24:36] You know, you know, what's your concept plan? And then we, the second thing we ask is, why do you want to do this? You know, is there underlying reasons, facts?

[24:44] More and more people are saying we need to do this while we're strong.

[24:50] And that is 100% correct.

[24:55] You know, we're going to be doing something, as you are going to indicate, with a webinar and one of the fire chiefs that are going to be talking, he is 100% proponent on the concept.

[25:09] Do it when you're strong. And he's 100% correct. He's gone out and has been the speaker one or two, three places, telling people what they did. Working with me, you need to think about that kind of stuff.

[25:23] What are the underlying reasons?

[25:26] And then once we figure out what the client wants to do, depending on where you're located, do we do it in person? Do we do it virtually?

[25:34] We schedule a meeting like you said, if we can do it, a consultation meeting isn't any charge. And we come out and try to put the faces and the names together.

[25:45] Like I said, we'll do it virtually if need be and, you know, go to the next step. Do like you said, you know, take, sit down for two hours or so and hash things out, talk about it and figure, figure out if, you know, we're good match for your organizations and if we're engaged, then we take the next step.

[26:05] And the next step is typically putting some type of local steering committee or local coordinating committee together to work with our team. We do that for multiple different reasons. And then we go through the process and we establish a timeline that varies.

[26:21] Our concept is we're not going to put a hard, fast date time on it. If we get a project done in six months, depending on what you want us to do, we're going to be done in six months.

[26:31] And if we estimate, I sort of call it system development, you're developing that new system and what you want to do, then we put the plan together and put the presentation together to whoever needs to be presented to, for whatever action is needed, a vote in the affirmative to do something, to not doing something, doing something.

[26:52] And once that vote is taken, then we know whether or not we're moving on to the implementation stage. And, you know, that's the next thing that we do. And we really pride ourselves with helping with the implementation stage, just like we did with you folks going through all the processes and getting to day one.

[27:08] And then unfortunately, like you said, Covid changed our plans. But nine out of 10 clients we deal with want to do a ribbon cutting and have a little get together, invite like their neighbors and celebrate what they've done.

[27:20] You know, we, we did it. One of the. And I can't remember, and I hate to say I can't remember, but we did two of the volunteer corporations in Lewistown Borough, the home of the state fire academy in Pennsylvania.

[27:32] And it was pretty cool. They invited a lot of the former state fire, you know, fire commissioners or the state fire school administrators to the event. So yeah, we go from step one until the final step.

[27:42] And a lot of people retain us to provide additional services once they're up and running. So it. That pretty much sums it up. But the parts within those different categories are moving all the time and we just, we just flow with it.

[27:55] Ed Mann: I have to say that, you know, you, your organization being able to take care of the implementation piece or what became Chief Logan was key to this thing because had we had to depend on ourselves to deal with the bureaucracy of state government, with the Department of State and the Department of Revenue and the IRS and stuff, you know, it would have just made that process that much longer.

[28:25] And because you have the experience, you know, who you need to talk to and, and what paperwork they have to have in order to make everything official. So that made life a whole lot easier for us.

[28:38] Rob Brady: So.

[28:39] Ed Mann: So before I ask the next Question. I'm going to make a statement here.

[28:43] And the next question deals with obstacles that may come up. And look, I've been around a volunteer fire service. I grew up in Belfont and Center County. Two fire departments, names, family names associated with one fire department for centuries, for decades.

[29:04] So there's a lot of pride. I mean, there's a lot of pride when you belong to, you know, a particular fire company. And there's always been some. What's the word I'm looking for?

[29:15] There's. There's always been some. Some back and forth between the other fire company in town or the other fire companies in town.

[29:23] Rob Brady: Right.

[29:24] Ed Mann: So there's a lot of pride there. Oh my gosh. And when you're saying to somebody, hey, look, you ought to consider merging with the guy that you really haven't gotten along with over the years.

[29:38] I'm sure that's got to be one of the obstacles. So now to ask the question, what are or what have been some of the major impediments or obstacles that have actually prevented organizations from following through with a merger or consolidation?

[29:54] Rob Brady: You hit the proverbial nail on the head. And the number one is dealing with people. We are all different human beings in many different ways.

[30:03] And when you add all those things and personalities and belief structures and all that kind of things, it can be a free for all at times and not in a negative way, because it is sort of fun, I think, at times.

[30:17] And the guys and women I work with, it's interesting to sit around the table and just listen to the comments. It's just interesting because, you know, a lot of times you're better off sitting there and not talking and just listening.

[30:27] And then you get a better handle of what's going on. But positively sometimes you're going to be sitting with people that the people sitting across the table for. For 100 years was there was their arch nemesis.

[30:40] And for whatever reason we're now sitting here together. It sort of goes back to the. The three fire department and one ambulance thing is that the hindrances were gone. And that's a shame.

[30:51] I really think it's a shame because those hindrances could have been part of the solution, but they delayed the solution for 10 years. And I just don't. I just don't think we are part of a pretty good.

[31:04] A lot of guys will say it's the best job in the world. I say it's the best advocation in the world. We are so lucky to be involved in it.

[31:12] But a lot of Times. We're not good stewards of it. And that's what I think is a big thing. It's people. It's those preconceived notions of this is the way we've always done it.

[31:22] And when we sit back at the end of the day, I think we forget that we're here to serve. Mr. And Mrs. Smith, you know, those folks out there do not care.

[31:30] The name on the side of the fire truck, they don't care the name on the side of the ambulance, the color it's painted, the patch that's on the. On your sleeve.

[31:40] They want. When they pick up the phone and call for help, they want the best trained, best equipped, quickest response team of men and women that are going to get there efficiently, quickly, efficient, and efficiently fix their problem and make their day get better.

[31:58] They don't want to hear about all the garbage that we. That we talk about and. But that is the biggest thing we talk about. I was sitting in a meeting the other day, and I just started laughing out loud, and there's 25 people in the room.

[32:11] They're like, what? And I said, guys, you know, I said, you asked me, you know, do you think we're going to be successful? And my answer is vehemently no. And they all looked at me perplexed, and they said, why?

[32:23] I said, because you can't get over who beat who in a football game in 1970.

[32:30] I said, you're talking about competing football teams and somebody who won a football game in 1970, and you're still focused on that. You're not worried about Mr. And Mrs. Smith.

[32:41] You're not worried about your service sinking.

[32:43] And then the proverbial light bulb went on, and then the heads and a couple people. One fire chief specifically goes, Rob, I'm in 100% support. But what you just said is exactly what our problem is.

[32:55] We can't get out of our own way on stuff that happened in the past. And that's truly what it is. It's that people, you know, and probably the money comes last, but it's people and it's the way we've always done it.

[33:07] And when I say we've done it this way, it's the way we thought about it. And you're right. I mean, I hear that. I do. This past year, in 2024, I've been working with some folks in the New England states, and, you know, the group's there.

[33:22] Same, same thing. This is the way we've always done it. And this happened back then. And I just tell them all the same thing. It's like, listen, if that's your thoughtful thought process, you're never going to change anything.

[33:32] You're never going to get to that next chapter. So, yeah, that's what's really driving it. And if you can get beyond. If you can get beyond that, you're going to do some really good things.

[33:41] Ed Mann: So, you know, Chief Brunesini, God rest his soul, is the one that coined the term. It's about Mrs. Smith.

[33:48] Rob Brady: Yep.

[33:49] Ed Mann: And. And I've used it thousands of times. You know, if everybody could just clear the crap between their ears and look at it from that perspective, you know, how. How are we going to better serve Mrs.

[34:05] Smith if. If, if that could be everybody's thought process?

[34:12] Life would be so much easier in this business.

[34:15] Rob Brady: Positively.

[34:17] And we're so focused. The other thing that we are so focused on is on stuff. On stuff. We gotta have the biggest and the best and we have to have the most of it.

[34:30] And I would rather see a reduction in fleet and that kind of stuff and equipment that we just. That what I call our stranded assets that just, just are never used anymore or can't be staffed and get.

[34:45] Better staffing, better benefits, better incentives for volunteers, career folks, you know, we gotta, we gotta. We have to compete against every industry in the world today for the next generation of the people who are gonna be involved.

[35:00] If we don't make it interesting, if we don't go out and sell it and show the benefits and what you can become part of.

[35:08] If we just keep focusing on buying the biggest ladder truck, the biggest engine, the biggest rescue truck, the biggest ambulance, having the biggest fire station, well, we got two more apparatus bay doors than you guys do.

[35:20] If we're just gonna. We're gonna dig our own hole sooner than later. And they're the hindrances. But if you can get beyond that, it's amazing what you can accomplish.

[35:29] Ed Mann: So you mentioned it earlier. You mentioned you were doing some work in the New England state. So obviously you answered my next question. What other states outside of Pennsylvania have you been offer?

[35:40] Rob Brady: I pretty much will do it any place if you know what I've learned is a hybrid model of doing this. I had an inquiry. I was talking to some folks out west.

[35:49] Like I said, I protect the innocent. So I don't say way to embarrass people. But yeah. And for the little bit of stuff I did for him, we just did it virtually.

[35:59] We did it virtually. And yes, it was a different time zone. Two different time zones. It Gives you a little bit better handle. And, you know, maybe it was, you know, somewhere in the, you know, northwestern part of the country.

[36:10] But, yeah, I'll help anybody. And the guys that I work with and women, they just, we're willing to help anybody. And if the hybrid model really works, the hybrid in person and virtual and a couple other things, it works well today and people are comfortable, especially now, people are just like, what we're doing here with this, and we're doing it virtually to get this done.

[36:30] And it works. It really works. We can network better. We can share stories and best practices and what blew up and didn't work well. So, yeah, I'll pretty much help anybody.

[36:44] Ed Mann: All right, great. So as we near the end of the podcast, do you have any worldly advice to our listeners related to merger consolidations?

[36:55] Rob Brady: Yes, and I said it before and I'll say it again, we've been entrusted to be part of something special when it comes to public safety. We read a lot of stuff about the stuff, the bad stuff going on, but I truly believe the good stuff outweighs that.

[37:10] But we do have challenges, and we are the only people who are going to be able to move away from that, to put a different face on what we do, to embrace the community different and to support ourselves differently.

[37:25] That's my best advice. Do not wait for somebody else to save the day. Do not expect.

[37:31] And I say it, and I've said it, and I think we got told about it one or two times, but don't expect. And of course, in Pennsylvania, you can put your own state capital on it.

[37:41] Don't expect Harrisburg or don't expect Washington to solve it for you. These are local services.

[37:47] These are what people expect every day of the week. And it's a different level of government.

[37:53] We have to take a responsibility to realize that we're part of the solution. And if we can accept that and do that and realize that we need to be resilient, we need to keep up with changes, we need to see what our community needs and what we need, we're going to thrive and we're going to do well and we are going to get people involved.

[38:13] But if we keep going down the paths that we discussed, nothing's going to get better.

[38:18] Ed Mann: Okay. So, Rob, I want to thank you for taking the time to talk with me today. I look forward to our live panel discussion on January 14th at 7pm in fact, you'll be our first webinar of the new year.

[38:33] And the title of our live panel discussion is so you think you want to merge, Fasten your seat belts and hold on to contact Rob directly. His email address and website address will be in the Episode Notes.

[38:48] To sign up for the online seminar or and webinar, view our previously recorded webinars, visit the link in our Episode Notes.

[38:58] Share this podcast with your colleagues. You can send them our subscription link, also found in the Show Notes. Lastly, to our listeners, if you have any questions or need additional information, or if you have an idea for a future webinar podcast podcast, please email us@infoprovidentins.com

[39:18] Station 1902 signing off until next time, stay safe for your family's sake.