Station 1902

[00:00] Captain Vallery: Foreign.

[00:13] Chief Mann: I want to welcome all of our listeners to The Providence Station 1902 podcast.

[00:19] I'm Ed Mann, the director of training education for Providence.

[00:23] Today I have the pleasure of talking to Jason Valerie, captain of the Longview, Texas Fire Department.

[00:29] Captain Valerie, please introduce yourselves to our listeners.

[00:34] Captain Vallery: Okay. I am firefighter with, like I said, Longview Fire Department. I've worked there for 26 years.

[00:41] I've been that captain since 2005.

[00:45] I love doing the job and I love striving to be better at the job.

[00:51] Some of my co workers and I have taught some classes outside the department as well.

[00:57] But a majority of the training and things that I've developed and worked on have all started in house,

[01:05] you know, for our own department.

[01:08] Chief Mann: What got you started in the fire service, Cap?

[01:13] Captain Vallery: I started at a young age as a volunteer and I just loved it. So I've stayed in it ever since. Became a paid firefighter in 98 and just it's been a passion of mine.

[01:27] I've done a lot of various things in it between tech rescue, water rescue, hazmat response,

[01:35] state teams, federal Texas Task Force 1, and all kinds of other things as well.

[01:42] But I've just got a passion for everything. Emergency response, I believe.

[01:47] Captain Vallery: Oh, great.

[01:48] Chief Mann: So tell us, tell our listeners a little more about the Longview, Texas Fire Department.

[01:53] Captain Vallery: Okay. Longview is nestled in the piney woods of East Texas. So right. It's in the forest, not, not the desert which is the other side of the state.

[02:03] It's right off Interstate 20. It's 56 square miles, 82,000 population. So a small to medium sized town.

[02:13] It's well over 100,000 during the daytime.

[02:16] We've got eight stations,

[02:19] we run 50, about 50 personnel per shift.

[02:23] Two battalion chiefs,

[02:25] we have a fire marshal on duty, a safety officer on duty,

[02:30] seven inches, three trucks,

[02:32] six frontline ambulances.

[02:35] So it's a, you know, one of those kind of small to mid sized cities without a lot of other cities around us, small departments around us that help us or we can help them.

[02:46] But it's not automatic aid.

[02:48] We run about 23,000 calls a year,

[02:52] 85 structure fires that come in as a structure fire anyway. Of those, about 40 are working structure fires. So that's a decent amount considering that a little over half our cities on the first alarm.

[03:05] And a second alarm wipes out our city.

[03:09] We don't in fact get an entire full second alarm. If we go second alarm, we leave basically one engine and we're calling in mutual aid from our neighbors at that point.

[03:19] So that Kind of gives you an idea of how taxing a fire is on us. I know we're blessed to have what we do a lot. Can't send nearly as many personnel.

[03:30] We have about 24 personnel on a working structure fire, so that's a pretty good response comparatively.

[03:37] But we're not sending anywhere near the numbers that a big city might.

[03:43] So that's a pretty good rundown.

[03:46] Chief Mann: What's a typical staffing on an engine in a truck when you're first out?

[03:50] Captain Vallery: Okay, so we've got minimum manning of three on the engine and three on the truck, so. Yeah.

[03:58] Captain Vallery: All right.

[03:59] Captain Vallery: Love to have more. We'll talk a little bit about that.

[04:02] Chief Mann: Yeah, well, there's. There's a lot of fire departments would like to add more.

[04:06] I know we have some career departments here in the east, especially in Pennsylvania, that up until a few years ago,

[04:15] you had two on a truck and maybe three on an engine.

[04:20] And I don't know how anybody could effectively do truck work with just two people. But do your engines and trucks run on ems? Assist with the front. Do ambulances you have?

[04:35] Captain Vallery: Yes, sir, we sure do. Okay, everybody in our department's paramedic. We've been all paramedic since before I started in 98, so I think around 96 is where any new hires will be.

[04:47] Paramedic. So we've been running EMS for a really long time.

[04:51] Captain Vallery: Oh, okay. All right.

[04:53] Chief Mann: That's a little different that everybody's a paramedic. That's neat.

[04:57] Captain Vallery: Yes, sir. We run about 14,000 EMS calls a year. Yeah.

[05:01] Chief Mann: Okay,

[05:02] so when you and I had our discussions prior to this,

[05:08] you're the president of a business called Fireground University.

[05:12] How about telling our listeners how the business came about?

[05:17] Captain Vallery: Okay,

[05:18] so a lot of what we. We've taught and taught in house,

[05:25] we basically just wanted to kind of get some of it out to other departments.

[05:30] So we got together and we've offered some training. It's not.

[05:35] It's not a big company. We haven't been doing it long. We're really basically just getting started and offering some outside training. We did put on a conference last year in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex that did well.

[05:50] We brought a lot of great instructors in.

[05:52] But, yeah, we're kind of at that point where we're willing and ready to teach some.

[05:58] Some outside classes.

[06:00] And we've developed a lot of classes over the years. Sogs, sops,

[06:08] and tactics and Strategies and all kinds of things that I think are really cutting edge.

[06:13] And we. We won't have time to talk about a lot of that, but we can maybe hit on a few highlights at some point during. During the discussion.

[06:21] Captain Vallery: Okay, great.

[06:22] Chief Mann: So during our conversations you mentioned that. And in fact, when we do your webinar in August,

[06:30] the title of it is 18 structure fire watch Out Situations.

[06:34] So how did you come about developing those structure fire Watchout situations?

[06:41] Captain Vallery: So one of the classes I've taught for four years is building construction.

[06:46] And it's not just the standard. These are the parts and pieces of a building and all that stuff. Everything that I teach or the class developed into what I have taught has something to do with a hazard that has led to the death of a firefighter on scene.

[07:03] So really,

[07:05] the title could have been changed to 20 ways not to Die in a Fire, but every one of those goes back,

[07:13] like I said, to a specific hazard that we may be able to mitigate and or avoid.

[07:21] I really insist on trying to be accurate. And I want to make sure that I teach things that not just because somebody has told me, but because I truly understand it.

[07:30] And one of the best sources of why we do something is if we utilize or tie it into a line of duty death, because the line of duty death reports are pretty well written with some things that fire departments may not have done effectively and, or situations that led to that death.

[07:53] And if there's a death, there's probably hundreds of injuries that occur from the same thing. Right.

[08:00] So by utilizing those LODs and reading them, I've read through about the last 30 years worth of anything that had to do with structure fire line of duties,

[08:13] and excluding the things like heart attack, stroke, heat exhaustion,

[08:20] et cetera. But if it was on the fire ground, performing the typical initial duties of fire, attack,

[08:28] search, vent,

[08:29] et cetera,

[08:32] we've examined those and basically we came up, started coming up with a list. What are some common denominators? What are things that we're seeing? What are trends? And as we develop those trends, friends, it's like, these are the things we've got to get out to the fire department because they're listed.

[08:50] But there's not people necessarily teaching the how. Well, how do I avoid it? How do I assess it? How do I know it's going to happen? What are some alternatives I can do?

[09:00] At my department, we're so understaffed,

[09:02] there are oftentimes alternatives, and there are ways that we can work around these problems. And it might be avoidance, but can you or can you not avoid it with your staffing, your equipment,

[09:14] your manpower, whatever it is,

[09:16] you don't know until you critically analyze that specific hazard. And so what we did is identify that that list looks really similar to what the wildland firefighters use, which are 18 watchout situations.

[09:35] That's something that they instill in their firefighters to minimize.

[09:41] And so,

[09:42] you know, that's going to help them identify the problem out in the field. Right? It's in their notebooks, it's in the training manuals. They review it regularly.

[09:52] And I was like, there's no reason we shouldn't have that for structural firefighting. So we listed 18 of them.

[09:59] And it's not. It doesn't encompass any and everything,

[10:02] but it will give you a vast majority of things that one could see on the fire ground to identify a hazard that needs to be addressed.

[10:13] Chief Mann: So one thing I do,

[10:15] every time a new NIOS report hits the street, I read it from top to bottom. And, and you know,

[10:23] like you, I see a lot of the same trends from one report to the next report. I had a very good friend of mine several years ago say to me, said, well, I don't read them anymore because they say the same thing.

[10:35] And I said,

[10:36] but, you know,

[10:38] if they're saying the same thing over and over again, apparently we haven't learned our lessons.

[10:47] If each NIOSH report consistently is saying lack of communications and poor incident command or incident management,

[10:56] apparently the fire service isn't reading the reports and learning from the reports. And that can be a little frustrating,

[11:03] at least in my eyes, anyway.

[11:06] Captain Vallery: That's right, Ed. So go ahead, Cap.

[11:10] Chief Mann: I'm sorry.

[11:11] Captain Vallery: I was just saying that just tells us that we're missing something there.

[11:15] As the fire service,

[11:17] we know a lot of the problems and we know a lot of the solutions,

[11:22] but there's some level of disconnect there. And sometimes we don't know how to get to the solution or we don't identify the problem effectively or in. Or we don't know how to analyze it to the extent that we can apply the safe and effective solution to the problem.

[11:41] So that's what one of our classes,

[11:46] Strategies and Tactics,

[11:48] discusses and helps the learner to do.

[11:54] Chief Mann: So, Captain, what are some of the common denominators you see that lead to firefighter injury and death?

[12:02] Captain Vallery: Okay,

[12:03] so like you mentioned, NIOSH puts out their list, and at one point, they put out the NIOSH top five.

[12:10] That's. That's an easy go to, right. It's widely published.

[12:16] Everybody's seen it. But it's worth mentioning and rementioning. And it's exactly what you said. It's improper size up lack of incident command,

[12:28] lack of accountability,

[12:30] inadequate communications and lack of SOGs or failure to follow established SOGs, which again is probably a disconnect and somebody is writing them. Are we following them? Are we studying them?

[12:42] Do we disagree with them? I don't know how many times over the years it's like, I'm not doing that, that doesn't make any sense or times have changed, we do this now.

[12:49] But if it's in writing, we need to fix that stuff, make sure everybody's educated on it across the board.

[12:55] Just like communications. If we have a certain thing that we say on a fire ground,

[13:00] everyone should know what that means implicitly and explicitly as well as implicitly. Like what does that imply? If I say these few succinct words, it means that I need to do X, Y and Z,

[13:16] not just understand it. So our communications have to be written and they have to be trained upon and then they have to be used and everybody needs to agree upon them.

[13:25] If I say this word, it means these things and all of that stuff lies really heavily on chief officers and incident command in that list.

[13:35] We can then from there go into so many different directions, but one of which is like say the 18 watch out situations which we're going to listen things that you see in front of you and then another avenue to take that is how we perform our performance.

[13:54] Common denominators to line of duty desks, I'll say one right now is not getting water on the fire quickly or effectively,

[14:04] is it the,

[14:06] and I'll be honest, it's usually or oftentimes it's not the gpms, it's not the size of the line, it's how it's used or where it's put into place or how long it takes to get it into place.

[14:18] So shortcut is put the fastest water on the biggest bulk of fire as quickly as you can. However that is. And if that means you hidden it through a window,

[14:30] yes, it may not be as fun, but it's what's best for the attack, it's what's best for the victims inside,

[14:37] it's what's best for property conservation. And we need to be professionals and disciplined enough to do what's best for our duty to respond and not what's going to be the most pleasing for us is getting in there and melting some gear.

[14:55] I, I can,

[14:57] I can, we can tangent off any of those you'd like.

[15:01] Chief Mann: I'm with you. And, and we, we, we could spend the entire morning talking about each one of those points if we wanted to. And I don't want to take anything away from your,

[15:11] your,

[15:11] the webinar we're going to do in August so we won't go down that rabbit hole. But I'm sure we'll hit on all of those when we do your webinar on August 26th.

[15:22] So I know you mentioned that Fireground University,

[15:27] your business is relatively new,

[15:29] but I do want to give you an opportunity, I want to take an opportunity here.

[15:33] How about telling our listeners about some of the other in person training that, that you offer or can offer and we'll make sure in the episode notes that we have a link to your website or your contact information.

[15:47] So if people want to reach out,

[15:50] they know how to get a hold of somebody to get those in person training sessions.

[15:55] Captain Vallery: Oh yeah, that sounds great.

[15:57] So we've got again, we've taught for many years, for decades, so we can teach a pretty big variety of things,

[16:05] anywhere from individual classes to engine company operations where we cover a variety of things over several days. I've got an entire truck academy developed. You know, an entire, we could go depending on your equipment and your manpower and how you run your trucks,

[16:25] a 40 to even a 60 hour class running through all the various types of truck work. We, we could even do some technical rescue, high angle, confined space.

[16:39] But our emphasis is really on right now all the firefighting skills,

[16:47] skills and drills as well, which is evaluation.

[16:51] You drill once you know a subject,

[16:56] you train on the skills until that point.

[17:00] We also have developed various types of guidelines.

[17:06] Let me mention one thing also is I was,

[17:08] I've got both bachelor's and master's degrees in safety. I've done safety consulting for about, I did it for about 12 years and I combine a lot of that experience into the fire service with a lot of program development.

[17:24] So we can DO program development, SOPs, SOGs as well as investigations,

[17:33] you know, line of duty,

[17:34] deaths or injuries, near misses, things like that as well. Somebody just wants some level of consultation of tell us what you think about this.

[17:43] Can provide that as well.

[17:47] Captain Vallery: Okay, great.

[17:48] Chief Mann: So I'm going to ask you a question I didn't have in the script. What do you prefer doing engine work or truck work?

[17:56] Captain Vallery: For my personal,

[17:57] my personal gratification. I like getting in a fire with the nozzle and putting a fire out. That's.

[18:04] I do enjoy that. I've spent more time on a truck though and I'm on a truck now, so I do, I enjoy truck work, but it is more enjoyable, I feel like to be Inside a zero viz fire.

[18:20] Chief Mann: Well I gotta tell you, love it all when I was still chasing fire and I don't do it anymore. I retired at the end of 2021 as a volunteer fire chief and did a lot of structural fire training in my younger day.

[18:35] I much rather be on the end of a nozzle or with a nozzle or a hose line and I would be doing truck work. And I'm not downplaying what truck truckies do.

[18:44] I want anybody to misunderstand that I personally prefer engine work.

[18:50] But obviously we can't get the job done if the truckees aren't doing their thing the right way either.

[18:57] Captain Vallery: So. That's right.

[18:59] Chief Mann: So Cap, as we we near the end of the the Station 1902 podcast, do you have any words of wisdom you'd like to pass along to our listeners?

[19:14] Captain Vallery: And there's, there's a quite a bit. Let's see. Probably the most important, and this is something I try to, we try to end our strategies and tactics class with is you can't get better unless you critically analyze your performance,

[19:30] identify weaknesses, areas for improvement, whatever you want to call it. But then you've got to capitalize on it. And that's where we fail a lot. Right.

[19:37] So doing good critiques, whatever you want to call it,

[19:43] but then taking those and identifying lessons learned and then implementing that into your SOPs or SOGs and writing it, formalizing it, communicating with everybody that's involved to get multiple directions of input to where we know that it's going to work and then train on it and then re implement it and then you go back and it's a cycle of course,

[20:05] constant quality improvement and they do great in industry with this stuff. But we don't take those lessons learned into the fire service very well. We like to just do the type A personality.

[20:17] We're just going to go hard and the harder we go, nothing can stop us mentality. But sometimes that is what leads to injuries and possibly even death.

[20:26] We need to critically analyze things and that's probably one of the most important things we can do to get better over time. We don't want to be a 20 year rookie that really never learned anything over his career.

[20:41] Chief Mann: So. So you mentioned communicate it with everybody involved. One of the, I think one of the downfalls sometimes is we have a near miss on a particular shift.

[20:50] That shift or that crew talks about that near miss but they don't share that information with anybody else.

[20:57] Captain Vallery: That's right.

[20:58] Chief Mann: You know, so a small group of people learned a lesson, but the you know, we leave everybody out of that loop and then, you know, six months later that near miss turns into an injury and had we shared that information with everybody else,

[21:13] we may have prevented that injury or death.

[21:16] Captain Vallery: So what exactly?

[21:19] Chief Mann: Cab I want to thank you for taking the time to join us today.

[21:23] I'm hopeful our listeners have gained a better understanding of those things that can injure or kill them. And take heed to the message to our listeners. Please note we'll be having a live webinar with Captain Valerie on August 26th at 7pm when he will present more detail and information on 18 structure fire watchout situations.

[21:45] Please plan on attending.

[21:47] To sign up for that online webinar and previously recorded webinars, visit the link in our Episode Notes.

[21:54] Share this podcast with your colleagues. You can send them our subscription link, also found in the Show Notes.

[22:01] Lastly, to our listeners, if you have any questions or need additional information,

[22:06] or if you have an idea for a future webinar or podcast, please email us@infoprovidentins.com Station 1902 signing off. Until next time, stay safe for your family's sake.