PCG Connect

Rick Harris: 00:00

I haven't seen Pearl Jam. So I and here I am in the northwest, and I've not seen Pearl Jam.

Mel Renfrow: 00:04

What have you been doing with your life? Kind of

Rick Harris: 00:07

traveling for work, Mel. Traveling for work.

Mel Renfrow: 00:14

Hey there, everyone. Welcome to pop culture. This series will focus on all things that are related to the people of performance. Get it? People of performance, pop, pop culture?

Mel Renfrow: 00:26

From individual interviews to hearing more about the programs in place to make all of our lives better, pop culture is here to tell you what's new in the performance people biz. Well, welcome to the studio. Today, we have Rick Harris, who's the director of strategic accounts, and he flew in last night from Seattle. So welcome, welcome, Rick.

Rick Harris: 00:49

Hello, and thanks for having me here. I appreciate it.

Mel Renfrow: 00:51

Yeah. We were just, we were just talking. It's the end of August here. What was it like when you walked out of the hotel this morning?

Rick Harris: 00:59

Eighty degrees and muggy. Different from Seattle. Seattle's a little bit drizzly today and mid to high fifties.

Mel Renfrow: 01:06

So I miss it. I miss it already. You'll be back. I'll

Rick Harris: 01:09

be back.

Mel Renfrow: 01:09

What time was that when you walked up?

Rick Harris: 01:12

Walked out of the hotel 6:30 CST. So time zones, we'll probably chat a little bit about that. Exactly. Trying to get caught up with that.

Mel Renfrow: 01:20

We'll hold on tight because Daniel was just saying that, heat index is gonna feel like a 105 today.

Rick Harris: 01:27

Right. Yeah. That's a little a little more than I'm used to.

Mel Renfrow: 01:31

Well, I'm I'm really glad you're here. Thank you for flying in, and you're here this week for the Acoustical Ceiling Summit. So getting a lot of business done while you're here.

Rick Harris: 01:39

I'm gonna try to participate in the summit, but I actually have 3 to 4 other meetings going on. And I'll be back again after Labor Day for a client summit here in in our HQ. So, yeah, I'll be bouncing around offices today and chatting with different people about different things.

Mel Renfrow: 01:54

Well, that is a great segue. So I wanna start just first, let's do quick background. K. So you joined, PCI July of 2015, correct?

Rick Harris: 02:06

Correct.

Mel Renfrow: 02:06

So why don't you tell kind of how did you get started in construction, and then how did you wind up here?

Rick Harris: 02:12

Completely by accident. I was attending the University of Washington at the time. Like a lot of kids, I wasn't sure what I was going to do and I wound up having myself too much fun there and needed a summertime job. And so a friend was aware of a company that was hiring people. So I started my career as a utility man and apprentice and a journeyman and a foreman.

Rick Harris: 02:37

And that was with a family owned company back in the Pacific Northwest. So I spent my entire career in the Northwest. And after several years of being, you know, as part of the the field forces, I actually walked out of a building and someone dropped a ladder from multiple floors above, and it landed on the back of my head and my shoulders. And it it kinda opened my eyes. It was one of the first fortuitous events that leads me to where I am today.

Rick Harris: 03:07

So I went back to school at night and the I think the company thought that I was too much of a liability in the field anymore. So they moved me into the office and let me start estimating and project managing and working with clients. And so I was there for 7 or 8 years. And oddly, it it it being a family owned company, their focus, they did focus on their people, but not in the way that an employee owned company does. And my younger brother and I thought there was a better way to do it.

Rick Harris: 03:44

So we actually left that company. He was working there as a as a foreman as well, and we began you know, we started our own business and in the drywall industry, and we did that for about 12 years. And I managed the front door in, he managed the front door out, and we had a pretty symbiotic relationship that way. And in that period of time, it's where I really started to learn more and understand more about employee engagement and about sharing the wealth, so to speak, and we did that. So I think we did it in a in a right way.

Rick Harris: 04:19

And after owning the company for 12 years, we sold the business to another national company that was also employee owned and really that that was the big second fortuitous piece that, when it opened my eyes to engagement, it opened my eyes to, ESOP sharing with everybody that was involved. So we did that, and I was overseeing operations across the Pacific Northwest up there, and I did that for 10 years.

Mel Renfrow: 04:54

And What was that position? What was your title?

Rick Harris: 04:56

I was a regional vice president, so similar to one of our structures here. So I had oversight of Washington State and Oregon and would travel back and forth, and and my brother had joined as a regional construction manager. So after about 10 years, it was almost 10 years to the day, I found that my idea of employee engagement and sharing with employees was different than, at least some of the the viewpoints there. And so I resigned my role. I wasn't sure what I was going to do.

Rick Harris: 05:35

I had friends working at, you know, all the big tech companies. I had friends with general contractors. I didn't know to where my skills might be transferable. And in that period of time, I had met Von Grubaugh. Mhmm.

Rick Harris: 05:48

We worked on a couple of coastal association things, and I'd met Ron Stafford. And we worked on some regional association things, and I'd met Dave Gas working on local things. So I I knew I'd actually just started competing against PCI. I knew who PCI was. I knew PCI had acquired a company in Chicago.

Rick Harris: 06:10

I knew that they were getting more serious in the northwest beyond acoustical ceilings. They were getting into fireproof, and they're getting into drywall. But I knew these individuals, and as I had resigned that role and was starting to move forward, I started having some more serious discussion with Dave Gas and Ron Stafford. And I had friends, some very close friends that had joined PCI, and I knew enough about the entity, but the biggest part was the ESOP employee ownership. I had developed this belief, right, that I wanted to be able to bet on myself and bet on my team.

Rick Harris: 06:46

It was it's just it's foundational to me. And so in 2015, I I was given the opportunity to join PCI. So I I joined as an operations manager in Seattle. Dave was the general manager, and I was working with Eric Taylor. Mhmm.

Rick Harris: 07:07

And, Eric and I actually went to apprenticeship school together.

Mel Renfrow: 07:10

Oh, you're kidding.

Rick Harris: 07:10

No. We've known each other that long. So there were several people that were already there. I joined, and I think it was a year or 2 later, I became the GM in in Seattle. And, we set about kind of fulfilling Dave's vision of growth, and we started to grow the business.

Rick Harris: 07:30

And that was a huge focal point. And fast forward after, I think, 6 years as a GM, this opportunity presented itself to step into a role, in strategic accounts and business development.

Mel Renfrow: 07:47

Yeah. And it's And

Rick Harris: 07:48

here I am.

Mel Renfrow: 07:49

It's great. Everybody has a different story Yeah. How they got here. And before we dive in, there was something you just kind of mentioned and rolled past, but I never knew that you were hit by a ladder.

Rick Harris: 08:01

Yeah.

Mel Renfrow: 08:02

Where how what were your injuries?

Rick Harris: 08:06

Concussion, tailbone, muscles from my left shoulder down to my right foot. Both shoulders were knocked out. It was just one of those things I was walking out on a footing Yeah. Of a concrete structure and an individual had accidentally more kinda shoved a ladder off the 4th or 5th floor of the building. And as I was walking out on the grade, the ladder came down fortunately, it came down sideways and hit the back of my head and back in those days right before our our rock climbing helmets now.

Rick Harris: 08:39

I mean, I wish I'd had it then, but I always wore my hard hat backwards. And the bill of my hat was protecting my upper vertebrae, but it a couple of fractures there. So it was enough to put me on a a about a 9 month recovery cycle.

Mel Renfrow: 08:57

To be alive, truly.

Rick Harris: 08:58

I felt like I was. I mean, I felt like I was. And then and I was quite frankly, I was lucky to be young because the bounce back and the recovery can be faster. And so I had some good doctors and great therapy. Actually, I did recover, and I I did kind of go back into the field.

Rick Harris: 09:16

But at that point, there was too much residual, and it just wasn't gonna work out. So

Mel Renfrow: 09:21

Well, that gives you a unique perspective on safety.

Rick Harris: 09:25

It, it started my passion for protecting people. Mhmm. And, again, it was one of those pieces. 2 things when I I remember, profoundly when when I joined the company. 1 was, going to I think it was LEADCON, and it was Bill rolled out the vision of people strategy execution.

Rick Harris: 09:47

And so the idea of engagement and our people being first, I don't I don't take it. I don't say it lightly, but it was it was like coming home. It was just, wow, this is what I I wanna be a

Mel Renfrow: 09:59

part of. Speaking my language.

Rick Harris: 10:01

That's what it was. Yeah. That and the fact that safety being number one core value. And, you know, we talk about it. Sometimes it can sound trite coming from the wrong voice.

Rick Harris: 10:12

Mhmm. But as long as we continue to work on it truly being that one piece, it again, it spoke to me because I've been on the other side

Mel Renfrow: 10:19

of it. Yeah. Yeah. You lived it. Yeah.

Mel Renfrow: 10:22

One other thing. So you you talked about engagement and how important that is to you, but also one of the things that attracted you here was that the ownership piece of it.

Rick Harris: 10:31

Yes.

Mel Renfrow: 10:32

But you had owned your own company with your brother. So can you talk a little bit different between, hey, owning your own company has its advantages. It has its disadvantages too. I I myself came from a family run business and got to see it firsthand. So what is the difference between owning it truly yourself and then being part of this company?

Rick Harris: 10:54

It's a great question. In hindsight, you know, the day to day, the simple stuff. Right? When my my brother would look at me and think I was taking too many vacation days because he was overseeing the field operations, and and it was a bigger struggle to get those days off. Right?

Rick Harris: 11:12

So that was a piece. You're putting in so much time, and you're you're sacrificing. Right? Something has to give a little bit, and so you pull in the work life balance component. You know, how do I it's not a 5050 proposition.

Rick Harris: 11:28

It's how do I get this done and do that as well. So there were those pieces there. The biggest piece to me was risk management. Yeah. When when you're running a small business, that's where I started getting exposure to dealing with lenders and, bonding agents and legal parts and pieces.

Rick Harris: 11:54

And we did tend to stay in our lane, but there's always risk. Right? And when you're a smaller entity, you're focused on how many people can I hire, how many support people, what can be done here? And when when you have a lender that comes to you and says, yeah, we need you to basically sign on the dotted line, which means your home and your college accounts for your kids and everything is at risk. So that was a big part.

Rick Harris: 12:20

And we wound up, like I said, 10 or 12 years later, sold the business because we had developed a client base and those clients were asking us to take on bigger, more complex, more risk loaded take those opportunities. And the kids were coming along. They were getting up in school. We're trying to build college accounts, and it wasn't that we were risk averse, but it got to that point where as just a couple of us

Mel Renfrow: 12:48

Mhmm.

Rick Harris: 12:49

It seemed the appropriate thing to to to take the deal. So and, you know, we didn't do it at first. We've been approached a couple of times over over a couple of year period, and then we just sat down and decided now is the time to do this.

Mel Renfrow: 13:02

Yeah. It's a it's a it's a a load to carry around on your shoulders. You're responsible for a lot of people Mhmm. And your family too and that balancing act.

Rick Harris: 13:11

Yeah. It was. It was that's a great way to put it. It was a balancing act.

Mel Renfrow: 13:15

Yeah. So you are the first person that has ever held this position, the director of strategic accounts. With all due respect, what the heck do you do? What does that mean? And then tell us a little bit about your team and what a day in the life.

Rick Harris: 13:33

A day in the life. Well, take it all the way back to square 1. I think I've been in the role now for about 4 years. It was a new role technically, right, because we have our titles and we have, you know, how we're viewed in house. So technically, I'm a regional manager 3.

Rick Harris: 13:48

My business card says that I'm the director of strategic accounts, and I think that in and of itself was strategic because it it's a point of entry Mhmm. For a lot of the clientele that we're trying to meet. Right? So that's how that came about. The vision as it was presented to me, basically, I think it was a year and a half, 2 years we started having a conversation with Pat Ross' vision that we start to closely align some business development resources with our our vice president, senior vice president structures.

Rick Harris: 14:19

And so I was still the GM in Seattle, and we started having the conversation about what would this look like and how would you feel about that when the time is right. And I at first, I wasn't really sure because I'm not a salesman. I'm not a business development person. And so when I looked in the mirror, it's like, well, you are an extrovert. You draw energy from being around people.

Rick Harris: 14:43

You're you're kinda good at this, you know, and and you like it. So, what does it look like bigger picture? So we started to, I guess, kinda formalize what it would look like. And then when when leadership came to me and asked me to take on the role, it was it was interesting to me because for so many years, I'd had direct reports, and I had different types of metrics. Right?

Rick Harris: 15:07

You're going through business planning, and you you're you're setting these different types of goals, and then all of a sudden, I found myself with no one on my team. Yeah. It was just here

Mel Renfrow: 15:16

I am. Good luck.

Rick Harris: 15:19

And and so a day in a life, it's like, okay. How do I how do I take a you know, what a lot of people might look at as purely a a handshake and baby kissing role. Right? Because there's a lot of that relationship driven stuff. And how do I turn that into a needle moving metric driven piece?

Rick Harris: 15:38

Well, at that time, I think it was again at leadcon, we rolled out the first of, I think, our 3 growth initiatives, and we wanted to do 2 and a half $1,000,000,000 in revenue by 2025. And and that was that piece. It's like, okay. So there's a goal. There's an initiative.

Rick Harris: 15:56

There's something a metric that we can sink our teeth into. So I think after the after the 1st year in the role on my own, trying to get my feet on the ground, figure out what was happening, understanding, not being a part of the the operations any longer, being around the same humans, but not being a wasn't part of the group anymore, and so it's

Mel Renfrow: 16:17

It's a tough transition.

Rick Harris: 16:19

It was a transition for sure. So and thank you for asking about my team. I was introduced to Sean Marry, and I'd known Sean for years. We actually started on the same day. And Sean had been tasked with, again, for helping to fulfill a vision that we had for life science and perpetuating that body of work and how can we become the best at that piece.

Rick Harris: 16:42

So Sean came in and that was his primary focus. And at that point, Sean and I became members of the same team, and we started coordinating. And here I am in Seattle in the far corner of the Pacific Northwest, and Sean is based out of Tampa Bay. So several time zones, you know, x amount of hours in the air. So we got to know each other via Teams and via world class and leadership conference and and internal events, and then we started in external events.

Rick Harris: 17:14

And then fast forward another year or 2, and Rich Jedlowski had been given the opportunity to again move out of the operational side, join the business development side, and and Rich was gonna have oversight of all of California. So Sean was working nationally with Clean Room. Rich was gonna step in and take over California. And as that has progressed, Rich is now overseeing he's working with the Sacramento, the Bay, and our our upcoming our new Reno office. And his focus is on generating new business organically and externally, for that region.

Rick Harris: 17:51

And then a little over I think it was a year ago, Rob Adams, who was a senior estimator for the Los Angeles branch, was given the opportunity to join our team as well. And so Rob is working in Los Angeles, and this is I know we'll talk about this, but this is one of the beauties of what we're doing now, the timing of the one PCG roll up. So Rob came out of the gate working for the branches, the industrial and the interior branch down in LA. So he's really taken a front end dive into the one PCG effort to help grow the operations. So, the 4 of us there and then as things continue to progress, I know that, a couple of operations in the east, maybe looking for their own sales associate business development person.

Rick Harris: 18:45

We will be talking with people to kinda fill our geographical region in the central, and how all this rolls up is still a little as business planning gets finalized, but I do think that we're finding out that between the team that's in place for business development, the belief in the structure and the capabilities of business development coupled with our marketing group, what that can do to help drive new business, and open up new opportunities for us. It's just been fun to be a part of.

Mel Renfrow: 19:19

Yeah. What are what are the plans? Because we've been doing business development

Rick Harris: 19:22

Mhmm.

Mel Renfrow: 19:23

For a while. What about, like, scaffolding or some of the, you know, industrial services and things like that? What are what are we doing in those areas?

Rick Harris: 19:32

So, again, the roll up with 1 PCG, what it what it's allowed us to do on the business development side, First and foremost, expand our knowledge base. So I know that some of our people will be at the upcoming scaffold summit. Mhmm. They'll be at the where they've been to the scaffold summit. We'll we're learning more about masthead.

Rick Harris: 19:52

You know, what are our capabilities? Where can where can these services be provided? Industrial insulation, fire stopping, all these pieces are they're just additional tools in our kit. They were there, and I think it provides a great opportunity to expand our bundled services capabilities insofar as selling them. They've always been there.

Rick Harris: 20:16

When I took on the role, understanding that we were still subbing out so much of that work, it it was like, you know, the light bulb went off and, wow, here's a here's a point of organic growth for us. So why are we not doing more of this? So right now, we're educating ourselves. We're introducing those product lines into more of our lunch and learns and our executive summits with our clients, and to sit in those let's call it a leadership summit with some of our our primary clients across the country. They're not aware.

Rick Harris: 20:50

They're still not aware of all the different things that we can offer. What are what are our total service lines? So, I think with 1 PCG with, I mean, Promotec, I had no idea the different things we can do. And so I think that there may be opportunities going forward. You know, when I'm talking to, the teams down in the southwest, as we look at mission critical work data centers, and they struggle with water and power.

Rick Harris: 21:16

And what if just what if for the sake of discussion, these SMRs, small modular reactors, actually start to come online or or the country starts to reboot, existing dormant nuclear reactors to provide power for data centers? What are those opportunities for our, you know, our nuclear product lines? And I'm still getting my head around that, obviously.

Mel Renfrow: 21:39

So if I'm I'm listening to this and I came from a branch where was predominantly none of those services that you just mentioned. Yeah. Yeah. So it seems like there's an opportunity. There's a little bit of a gap there.

Mel Renfrow: 21:53

Mhmm. And so I take it we're gonna be actively trying to pursue those every click and fill that. So if somebody's listening out there that has all that knowledge, talk to Rick.

Rick Harris: 22:04

Talk to Rick. Yeah. Well, I I I think a big part for me is is I I'd recommend that you invest in yourself. Expand your knowledge base. Learn as much as you can.

Rick Harris: 22:16

You know, in an environment right now where we've talked about trying to, redouble our efforts in either finding or converting estimators, for instance. I'm I'm a firm believer in the idea that we can make 1 +1equal3 by cross training. And and I think in this company where there's so much opportunity, raise your hand. And if the opportunity is there to learn about the other let's call it the other side of you, an industrial person, and you can learn about the interior side, the historic stuff, studs, board, fireproofing, you know, or if you're a a drywall insulator and you can learn more about industrial insulation, fire stopping, and even coatings. Anything that can roll up and provide a a better product and value proposition to our clients through a bundled service presentation or bundled service bid, that's that's what I recommend.

Mel Renfrow: 23:08

And we still have you mentioned sales associates Mhmm. Earlier. So we still have sales associates in various branches and so what do you think are the qualities that make, someone good at business development? Like, what kind of skills or competencies?

Rick Harris: 23:25

I think, first and foremost, self awareness. You know, am I an introvert? Am I an extrovert? Does being with people bring me energy, or does it take my energy? I've read before that introverted people tend to be the best salespeople because their level of empathy is so is can be a lot higher.

Rick Harris: 23:46

So I think you have to be very self aware. You have to understand, is this something I like? Is it something that I that I want to do? Another piece is that it can be in in a different way than operations. It can be exhausting.

Rick Harris: 24:01

Being on, right, is exhausting. When I say that, when you're at client events, we we attend a lot of conferences, and you'll be introducing or being introduced, and you're shaking hands, and you're setting up future interactions. And at the end of the day, it is exhausting.

Mel Renfrow: 24:19

Well, when you're making a first impression

Rick Harris: 24:21

There you go.

Mel Renfrow: 24:22

You take a lot of effort, and it's that over and over and over again. Yeah.

Rick Harris: 24:26

It's yeah. It it it, what's the adage? You know, wash, rinse, dry, repeat, recycle. You know, I mean, you're sure it's just, and and I think that's another big piece about it. In that environment, it's very easy to come across as insincere.

Rick Harris: 24:43

So when we talk, like, in leadership conference, we talk about leadership training. It they all still roll up. Right? Being you know, bringing your best self, bringing your authentic self, leaving a good emotional way. Right?

Rick Harris: 24:58

All of these things, they are all still in play in just a little bit of a different environment.

Mel Renfrow: 25:04

Mhmm.

Rick Harris: 25:05

And, and I I think if someone were to want to, make the foray into sales associate, business development, strategic accounts, you you do have to know yourself. You know you have to know what you're going to be getting into, and is that something that I that I like? And and quite frankly, it's very easy to be on this side and see people we interact with and say, wow, that person would be really good at at this. But if the individual doesn't have any kind of inclination towards it, it won't work.

Mel Renfrow: 25:42

Right. Right. Well, it seems to be more about listening than talking, which when you first look at it Yep. You know, you would think it's more about talking, but it's not. It's more about listening.

Mel Renfrow: 25:54

But then you do have to speak with authority and with knowledge and all of that and and be suave or smooth. You know what I mean? So Yeah. It's it's not necessarily always wanting a microphone, but when somebody gives it to you, you need to know what to say.

Rick Harris: 26:11

Number 1, you hit on it. To be that voice or that face or that peace, Listening and hearing are actually greater skills and talents in that arena, because nuances in conversation, just always remembering that someone likes to fish or someone's, partner is in this kind of situation or their kids are getting ready to go to college. You're having these conversation with or conversations with so many different people, but they're all such important parts and pieces to really create authentic and long lasting relationships. And that's really

Mel Renfrow: 26:55

like, to me, that's what the business is about. And then it's connecting the right people with one another.

Rick Harris: 26:59

Exactly. But you

Mel Renfrow: 27:00

have to know them in order to know how to connect them.

Rick Harris: 27:03

You'd be maybe you wouldn't be surprised, but the numbers of times that we may have an opportunity to pursue in, let's call it, the West Coast. And the driver, that person that we met 4 months ago is an East Coast leader for one of our clients to be able to pick up the phone or send a note and say, would you mind giving us an introduction to the decision maker for these projects here. And that's something I think we've that we've excelled at over the last especially the last 3 to 4 years. We've always been good at it. Technology has been a huge a huge tool for us, but the idea that you've you're developing a relationship with someone that is across the country and will help you with a project in your backyard, it's it's been huge.

Rick Harris: 27:49

And, you know, Sean, Rich, Rob, they've all done an just a stellar job in in that connectivity.

Mel Renfrow: 27:56

So Yeah. The construction industry, I think we all know it on a local level. It's a small it's a small fishbowl. But even nationally, you know, if you if you get a bad reputation, you know, people talk, and so it is a small world.

Rick Harris: 28:10

It it is. And even more specifically, when you're talking about life science and mission critical, where they're each driven by the highest of quality. They're both very schedule speed of delivery. If you fall down on 1, you may not get invited back. Yeah.

Rick Harris: 28:31

And somebody told me a long time ago, and I and I repeat this often. But I was told that a good salesman can sell a bad product or service one time, but a bad salesman can sell a great service or product time and time again. And we have great people, great services, great products. So you have every confidence that when you go in and you're selling one of these jobs as demanding as the project might be, let's call it scheduling quality wise, you have the confidence that we'll be able to back up what we're what we're putting out there.

Mel Renfrow: 30:08

So what are what are some common challenges that you face?

Rick Harris: 30:12

Time zones would be the first. Right? Time zones. As an example, I I think I was in Denver for some meetings. We had just transitioned out of Daylight Savings Time in the Pacific Northwest.

Rick Harris: 30:26

I had calls scheduled, so I was running at mountain time on transitioned daylight savings time. I had calls scheduled for central time and then other calls scheduled for east. And just trying to figure out what time is where for these meetings. So that's always the Where

Mel Renfrow: 30:46

am I in the space time continuum?

Rick Harris: 30:48

Am I? Tuesday. It must be Belgium. So I think I think time zones has has been a big one. Travel, the events, prepping for our national events, and so pulling people in from different parts of the country to attend a mission critical or a life science, the coordination with our clients.

Rick Harris: 31:07

And and these all roll up whether it's a life science event down in Orlando, a mission critical event in in Texas. Mhmm. And then, of course, you've got world class or not world class. I'm sorry. March Madness Mhmm.

Rick Harris: 31:22

In Vegas. And you're so you're customer event. The the huge client and our Super Bowl event. And so you're not just corralling yourselves and figure out your schedules, but everything that goes into the event planning, our marketing team, for instance, and we run them ragged. We run our marketing team ragged with we need swag.

Rick Harris: 31:44

Right? So we want certain parts and pieces. Everything has to be done right. Just the banners on the booths and whatnot. So that's another one.

Rick Harris: 31:50

It's just the coordination of the events. And I think, you know, I mentioned before being on. Right? So it's kinda like you tighten your tie and in you go. And it's like sometimes there are times where it's like, okay.

Rick Harris: 32:06

Let's go do this, but that's the job part. Right?

Mel Renfrow: 32:09

That

Rick Harris: 32:09

being on is that part. But, again, back to if you're comfortable with it, if that is if that is something you enjoy doing and you draw energy from it, that's the easy part. But if

Mel Renfrow: 32:20

you're good at your job Mhmm. And you once you build these relationships, you don't have to be on with those people.

Rick Harris: 32:27

You're spot on. You're you're on in the environments where it may be a little bit out of your comfort level or there is a huge group of people. But as you've developed your relationships and you've developed friendships, right, with individuals and sometimes even with entities, right, you where you become a known quantity because of what you do, that part is very easy. You know, let's go fishing. It's a big difference.

Rick Harris: 32:52

Let's grab a beer. Big difference.

Mel Renfrow: 32:54

For somebody that's listening that, hey, you mentioned earlier, you you let you you get energy from that. So there there's plenty of people that are very talented and that just it wears them out, but it is part of their job. And any advice there? Something that might make it easier?

Rick Harris: 33:10

Breathe. I mean, really, just just slow things down even so when I was on the operation side, it's still all about relationships. You are still setting up meetings. You are still going down, and and have surround yourself with with people that do draw energy from it. There I'm sure that there are leaders within our company, and that is not their expertise or their highest comfort level.

Rick Harris: 33:38

So make sure that as you're developing your team, you have the people that have that skill set, have that talent set, wanna take they wanna they wanna take advantage of that opportunity, and let them go do what they do best.

Mel Renfrow: 33:55

Find a yin to your yang.

Rick Harris: 33:57

There you go. Yeah. That's exactly true.

Mel Renfrow: 33:59

Yeah. So you mentioned this was a new position. You're just starting off. You're trying to figure out what is what is good look like. What is a win?

Mel Renfrow: 34:08

What was the first or, you know, one of the first wins that you had? Any examples of them?

Rick Harris: 34:15

3 come to mind, and I won't be specific about

Mel Renfrow: 34:17

for 1, Rick. I'm just kidding. But 3 come to mind,

Rick Harris: 34:20

but that's that's how I roll. Sorry. One is purely and simply the interconnectivity to to be able to align an East Coast client leader to the point where we are now able to develop a relationship with their team who we might not have been in the door with. That to me, the connectivity is our biggest win. And and not just amongst ourselves and our clients, but amongst ourselves and ourselves.

Rick Harris: 34:48

Exactly. So I think that part is huge. Watch in the interaction of our teams. Of course, business development didn't have a a key role in in our joint venture structure, but watching what the operations teams have done as they've developed the joint venture operations and what it's been able to provide back to the company post COVID

Mel Renfrow: 35:10

Yeah.

Rick Harris: 35:10

That connectivity is the number one piece to me.

Mel Renfrow: 35:13

I do wanna hear your number 23.

Rick Harris: 35:16

They'd be more project specific to to get eyes on you know, we're scouting different websites. We're scouting different trade regs. We're scouting different articles, and we're sharing out possible opportunities. Most often, the the branch ops teams that are already in front of it. They're talking to their clients.

Rick Harris: 35:35

They know that this particular project might be coming up. But every now and again, right, a blind school blind squirrel finds a nut, and so we find a job. And then to be able to follow that job through to, you know, the branch's success, that's pretty doggone cool as well. Yeah. And then I think watching the vision, the strategy, if you will, let's for mission critical because I've been pretty hands on with our mission critical group to watch the branch success in a marketplace that we identified several years ago.

Rick Harris: 36:08

And we said mission critical is where it's going to be. Right? I mean, EV battery plans. That was a kind of a fast oncoming new phenomenon, and we took great advantage of that. Mission critical was one that started to kinda swell and build up steam, and our teams, have just taken great advantage of that.

Rick Harris: 36:29

So to to watch us kinda fulfill the the vision that was set forth, I I the teams are just fantastic.

Mel Renfrow: 36:37

Yeah. It's been it's been crazy to watch, and I'm sure some of your things are tangible and intangible. Like, you can tie directly to, yep. I had the lead, and we finished the job, and here's how much margin and revenue, you know, and then others are intangible because they're they're in play now, and you don't even know.

Rick Harris: 36:54

No. It it, I think for me, it all comes back to and, again, advice to somebody, but I love the hunt. Right? I I I love beating our competition, and I love the hunt. And to start on the front end of the hunt and then be a part of the victory at the end, you know, even if it's just on the on the perimeter and watching the team, nothing better.

Mel Renfrow: 37:20

Yeah. It's a really good feeling.

Rick Harris: 37:21

Nothing better.

Mel Renfrow: 37:22

One thing I think from an outsider's perspective that you did in your role is even, hey, who are our top 25 customers? And and getting you know, actually tracking all of that and then, you know, watching how it varies year to year and, you know, your your integral in in getting that, dialed in.

Rick Harris: 37:42

It was, again, it was eye opening. One of the first things we were tasked with was to identify our top 25 clients. And as we started the kind of the the data pull on that, the first and most interesting thing to me was that it changes quarterly.

Mel Renfrow: 38:02

Oh, wow. I knew it did yearly, but quarterly?

Rick Harris: 38:06

It will change quarterly depending on because the way we track them is typically through revenue. We track revenue and margin. But if we're looking at revenue driven clientele, it could be it could be a battery plant, and we've started these off. And all of a sudden, okay, that entity that we may not have worked with 9 months ago, they are now our number one our number one revenue client. So that was a big piece.

Rick Harris: 38:31

And I

Mel Renfrow: 38:31

imagine it can be pretty significant. Sorry to interrupt you.

Rick Harris: 38:34

You didn't interrupt. They're very significant. Yeah. And they'll swing, and so the the the pieces there I think, like, within our top 10, maybe 12, there can be a lot of movement simply depending on who is you know, who are we billing this month?

Mel Renfrow: 38:51

Yeah. The work that's burning off.

Rick Harris: 38:53

Exactly. You know, for 18 months, it was one of our stadiums, and that client was in our top three, and now they've become, of course, a national client where we repeat business, a battery plant client, and then we have clients that they're in 3 major sectors. Right? They could be in life science, they could be a mission critical, and they could be on the commercial side. One of the biggest eye opening parts to me was the end user owner relationships we developed on the industrial side.

Rick Harris: 39:26

So as I started looking at our top 25 clients, and I find out that one is a huge energy based entity Mhmm. Global kind of company, or we find that a semiconductor company. And so when you're you're putting out the names of these entities, again, in my head on the operations side and being local to the Pacific Northwest, I was focused on my top five, top 7 clients. And I what do we wanna target going forward? And now that that has just ballooned up.

Rick Harris: 39:58

So that's been fun.

Mel Renfrow: 39:59

I have a hyper specific question. This is a Mel question. Okay. So we sign NDAs frequently.

Rick Harris: 40:06

Yep.

Mel Renfrow: 40:07

So when you're out talking to clients Mhmm. But you have this NDA and they wanna know, hey, can you perform this work or not? How do you how do you juggle that when you can't say, yeah, we did all this work for x and, you know, this was the volume.

Rick Harris: 40:21

Well, first of all, saying no is always harder than saying yes. Right? We will talk in big you have a hyper specific question, but I'm gonna give you a a big generality response.

Mel Renfrow: 40:34

That's why you have the job yet.

Rick Harris: 40:35

But that's but that's how we respond. I mean, we we may perform work on mission critical projects for a global online retailer, but we may also perform campus work for global for, you know, for a global Pacific Northwest based software development firm who has ventured into cloud computing.

Mel Renfrow: 40:56

Smooth.

Rick Harris: 40:58

Everything is that way. And then I think understanding the NDAs as well, we have to be very careful. We can't promote them online in certain without approvals, we go through that process. And so understanding that you have different approvals for this or for that, and then oftentimes, that end user or that owner, they will make once it's on my opinion is once it has been public. Right?

Rick Harris: 41:24

So if

Mel Renfrow: 41:25

we out of the bag.

Rick Harris: 41:25

Once it's out of the bag. Once we know that, and I will reference this, and Daniel can cut it out later if he needs to. But if we find out that AWS has a multi building campus in the upper central region, we're still careful in conversation because of NDAs that may have been signed, but the idea that it is out in the public Mhmm. Then we can make a reference and say, are you aware of this job? Okay.

Mel Renfrow: 41:48

So What a very meta way of explaining of answering that question. I love it. What what are some of the lessons that you've learned?

Rick Harris: 41:57

Wow. Specific to the job or over the course of my career?

Mel Renfrow: 42:01

Let's do the job first, and then I'm I'm interested in both.

Rick Harris: 42:04

1st and foremost, best lesson. I'd been in a presentation, and, it was a post bid presentation. I was with a client who is now one of our largest national clients, and we were doing a bid review walkout. And at the end of this lunch, and I'd been asked a lot of specific questions. Blah blah blah.

Rick Harris: 42:21

You know, what so what what can you do? And I'm I'm going through the the value proposition discussion, and I'm talking about, the differentiators between us and our competition and, you know, price structures and whatnot. And at the end of it, and I've known this particular individual with this client for a long time. There there were 4 of us at a lunch. And at the end of it, I asked him for some feedback.

Rick Harris: 42:44

So what do you think here and there? And I've actually thought he that the client would say, well, yours, you know, your price is a little high or you're you need to pick up this scope, and I thought it would be very project specific. And this gentleman looked at me and he said, well, in the next presentation or your next meeting like this, you might wanna consider talking more about my lawn and not the seed that you can provide. And I sat back, and I thought about that. And and now, you know, most it can carry over into your personal life as well.

Rick Harris: 43:19

Right? Your engagements with people and and whatnot. But there's really not a a a work environment where we're going out, and we're trying to pursue an opportunity where that is not in my mind. That's one thing that that I've really learned over the years. Personally, no one is bigger than the team, and I've learned that through a multitude of different channels.

Rick Harris: 43:43

But to walk into to any meeting, any any environment, and understand that the team is is paramount Yeah. I think that's probably one of the greatest lessons I've learned over the years. And, you know, I played sports when I was a kid and and being part of a of some competitive teams, understanding that the that the team first mentality, if it's not there, I've seen a lot of really good ballplayers not get invited back the next year. Yeah. Not that simple.

Mel Renfrow: 44:14

No one does it on their own?

Rick Harris: 44:15

No. No way.

Mel Renfrow: 44:16

To me, that's always a red flag Yeah. When somebody's like, hey. I did this by myself. I'm like, did you really?

Rick Harris: 44:23

If, in in I guess, internally, those are the 3 as I've as I've had the opportunity to meet and let's call it interview candidates to be a part of my employee owned company, I want I want someone who is going to be a cultural mesh. Right? Somebody that's gonna fit what how we do it and what we do. I want someone who is coachable, right, that is open to feedback and and wanting to get better and then willing to be a part of a team. Put the team first.

Rick Harris: 44:52

And from that point, we can teach skills and talents, I think. You know? So we can teach skills and we can hone talents.

Mel Renfrow: 45:01

Agree. Very well said. So in specific to your role

Rick Harris: 45:06

Mhmm.

Mel Renfrow: 45:06

What are future developments that you see? You talked a little bit you're adding somebody in the central here to get out your crystal ball here. Where do you see things going?

Rick Harris: 45:16

Well, nobody really knows yet what AI is going to do. Sure. So I'm trying to figure out if AI is going to be beneficial to us. How can we implement it? What how can we utilize it?

Rick Harris: 45:27

That might be through, presentations. It might be through kinda where I pictured as we as we've developed mock ups now, and we're doing drone flyovers of projects, and we're creating BIM models. So our whole marketing and our BIM teams, what is the next step there? Because as the world has gotten smaller, but we're still as far apart geographically, I do think that part of the virtual world will be huge in my little part of the world. Right?

Rick Harris: 45:58

So what AI does for that, I'm I'm not sure. I think that part's huge. I think one PCG is arguably the biggest piece that we have going forward. And the reason is I again, I believe that we have I we still have organic growth, internal organic growth that can be accomplished. I think that to achieve a lot of our growth initiatives that include the expansion of our teams, being able to have one rolled up bundled service product line, so to speak, is gonna be greatly advantageous.

Rick Harris: 46:34

So I'm looking forward to, again, learning more about that and then how do we take that, really roll that out to our clients so they understand what we do, where we do it, and buy home. And though those two pieces right there, I think, are gonna be huge, but they're never gonna be a replacement for the interpersonal relationships we develop. I'm I mean, I'm thrilled that I we, you know, we have relationships that go back 3 months to a lot of years. Believe it is a lot of years.

Mel Renfrow: 47:03

Yeah. How about the industry? Do you see it evolving? Have you seen any you know, you're going like you mentioned, you were going to a lot of these conferences and, rubbing elbows, moving and shaking with people, kind of any trends that you're seeing.

Rick Harris: 47:18

What's next on the horizon? What's gonna be built? I mean, when we went through COVID, right, there there are the impacts of return to work mentalities and policies. And those decisions have changed the commercial real estate. They've changed the commercial building markets Mhmm.

Rick Harris: 47:37

Wholly. And if, if anyone worked through, dotcom and 911, the same types of conditions occurred. Buildings were shut down. There were concrete steel shells of buildings in Seattle, specifically during dotcom. When dotcom fell off the shelf, I mean, it literally fell off the shelf, there was so much open vacancy.

Rick Harris: 48:02

Yeah. And until those leases were signed and and new tenants were brought in, you weren't going to start new commercial builds. Okay? So I think that is that's one piece. We don't know what that condition is going to bring.

Rick Harris: 48:18

So if policies are changed, if people are moving back into office environments, or the building types on the commercial side are going to transition. In the northwest right now, there is a push to potentially convert existing commercial buildings. Right? Tenant loaded buildings convert those into high rise housing. Yeah.

Rick Harris: 48:40

Right? Affordable housing. So I I think part of that another part is as retailers have gone online, a lot of the box buildings have now been converted to office or they'll be converted to something else. And so I think we're in a period of time where ideas and strategies, they're just now being set for the future, and we'll be able to take advantage of that. I think with, in clean rooms, specifically, as, new cures, right, are pursued, new drugs are brought online, that will continue to drive the needs of our our life science clean room based.

Rick Harris: 49:20

What AI does in the semiconductor, right, the chip arena, we're still a little bit on a wait and see. We're seeing the Chips Act money flow out through the entities and the entities starting to build up. But what does that look like 3, 5, 7 years from now? I don't know that we all have ideas. Sure.

Rick Harris: 49:39

But I think those are transitions. I think we'll continue to see stadiums, hospitality, quite frankly, I think medical space because we do have a generation that is aging and aged and The biggest generation. Right? The biggest. So I think I think that there will be some changes there.

Rick Harris: 50:00

People are traveling more, so we're gonna continue to see mega projects in airports, stadiums, hospitality, multiple function venues, right, that can roll a lot of different things up. And the world's global. Oh, well, that's that's redundant.

Mel Renfrow: 50:16

By definition. By definition.

Rick Harris: 50:18

But but we're starting to see global entities, right, that may want to see us, and I'm not talking about us going to work in in Asia. But these entities are taking up more space here, and they wanna get to know us better on the continental US. So those are a lot of the things that I'm I'm thinking about.

Mel Renfrow: 50:40

Yeah. It's it's mind boggling Yeah. When you stop to think about it. Is there anything, I'm gonna switch? Okay.

Mel Renfrow: 50:47

And but is there anything that you wanted to talk about that I didn't get to?

Rick Harris: 50:51

I actually attended an internal function in the Seattle branch last week before I before I came back to Kansas City, and I looked around and the next generations of people and the the leadership that we breed and the opportunities that we create. But to look around at some of these, I'll call them fresher faces, people that have, their entire careers out in front of them still, gives me nothing but excitement for where we're going.

Mel Renfrow: 51:20

Me too.

Rick Harris: 51:21

I'm pretty fired up for it.

Mel Renfrow: 51:23

Yeah. Me too. That's one of my favorite things when you, you know, I get to sit in or meet people that are here for all the different track, all the different training events. And it's it's always really cool when you it gives me faith. You know?

Mel Renfrow: 51:36

Hey. It'll be okay.

Rick Harris: 51:37

We're we're okay.

Mel Renfrow: 51:38

We're gonna be okay. So, I'm gonna switch. So what do you what do you do for fun?

Rick Harris: 51:45

Okay. So we'll get real personal. Yeah. I met a girl k. About three and a half years ago, and we are actually getting married in October.

Mel Renfrow: 51:55

Congratulations. Thank you.

Rick Harris: 51:57

And we're we're just we're just extremely joyful and happy, and we're looking forward to the the next stages of life together. And so, a lot of the fun, you know, we share. So we're we like to be in the water. We like to be in the woods. So we hike a lot.

Rick Harris: 52:15

We travel. Sometimes now with each of us still working, it's 3 to 4 day shots. So we like to do getaways. We love to travel to to, see music. So we've been down to Phoenix to see Pink.

Rick Harris: 52:29

We've been to Vegas to see Adele, and that's just how we choose to find our time. And we we plan the future, so we got a big dog. You know, he's a 70 pound dog.

Mel Renfrow: 52:39

He's What kind is he?

Rick Harris: 52:40

He's a Siberian husky.

Mel Renfrow: 52:42

Oh, he doesn't shed at all? Oh, shit.

Rick Harris: 52:45

It's a constant shed. He's almost 14 years old. He has he's torn each of his rear leg ACLs, so he's bionic at this point because we've rebuilt him. But it also led us to, you know, what do we wanna do when we're retired? What do we wanna do downstream?

Rick Harris: 53:01

And so we we're both passionate about working with pups and especially aging pups, right, that don't may not have an attitude. So we put a lot of time there. We think about that quite a bit. We she's better than I am, but we we focus, you know, because we want as many years out there in front of us. So we focus on our fitness and our health and, good food and good wine.

Rick Harris: 53:26

That's what we do.

Mel Renfrow: 53:27

Sounds pretty good to me.

Rick Harris: 53:28

Yeah. We're having fun. Life is life is fun.

Mel Renfrow: 53:31

So, how much longer do you have here? Not on the planet, but how how much longer before you retire?

Rick Harris: 53:40

I am rolled up in our succession plan for the end of September of 2026.

Mel Renfrow: 53:45

Okay.

Rick Harris: 53:46

Our our team is in great shape, and I've I've just always been impressed with how deeply we plan our succession, and that helps us roll up the creation of opportunity going forward. But so right now, yeah, September of 26.

Mel Renfrow: 54:04

So you mentioned you like to go see music.

Rick Harris: 54:06

Yeah.

Mel Renfrow: 54:06

What was your very first concert? Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper?

Rick Harris: 54:11

I saw Alice Cooper. It was the first concert I've ever I ever saw.

Mel Renfrow: 54:15

Where was it? How old were you?

Rick Harris: 54:17

Well, back then, it was the Key Arena in Seattle. It's now Climate Pledge Arena. So I saw Alice Cooper. I've seen Ted Nugent 5 different times, I think. The nudge.

Rick Harris: 54:28

The nudge. The 10 fingers of doctor Doom. So I've seen Ted Nugent, and I got to saw BB King or I get to see I got to see BB King, and it was just an impromptu thing. Heard he was in town. I was down in Las Vegas and got to see him.

Mel Renfrow: 54:46

Heard he he did not read music. That was all just crazy.

Rick Harris: 54:50

You know what? Again, what was his I think his guitarist name was Lucille

Mel Renfrow: 54:54

Yes.

Rick Harris: 54:55

And, CMBB King was awesome. And I think, you know, being in a small venue, just being out at a wine tasting event and seeing a local artist play, you know, bucket list wise, I haven't seen Pearl Jam. So I and here I am in the northwest, and I've not seen Pearl Jam.

Mel Renfrow: 55:11

What have you been doing with your life?

Rick Harris: 55:14

Traveling for work. Mel, traveling for work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just one of those ones.

Rick Harris: 55:19

I've I've never you know, I think of Pacific Northwest Bands, and I've never seen Pearl Jam. I've not seen Heart. And but, you know, those days will come.

Mel Renfrow: 55:29

Yeah. Those days will come. Who's your favorite?

Rick Harris: 55:32

Well, I'll tell you what. When we saw Adele, it was in a small venue in Las Vegas, like, 42,100 people, and she was so open and authentic and personal. And I I guess you walk into certain certain of those shows and you think, wow, is this gonna sound different than on the radio or whatever you're listening to your music on? And it was it was just magnificent. It was hands down just an incredible, incredible evening.

Mel Renfrow: 55:59

I love it when you go and they're actually better live.

Rick Harris: 56:02

It it was. It was. And it was one of her because she had she had gone through COVID cancellations Mhmm. And this was one of her first events afterwards. And, again, she was just so open, and, she finished the show and walked up the aisle, and we had a couple of seats on the aisle.

Rick Harris: 56:20

And, so she passed within 2 or 3 feet of

Rick Harris: 56:23

us, and she was just so gracious to everyone that she was saying hello to. It was it was really a

Rick Harris: 56:23

great gracious to everyone that she was saying hello to. It was it was really a great show.

Mel Renfrow: 56:29

Yeah. You can feel it. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Mel Renfrow: 56:31

You mentioned travel. Yeah. So here's so how often do you travel?

Rick Harris: 56:36

Well, I have an Alaska Airlines, mileage plan.

Mel Renfrow: 56:41

I was gonna ask if you're like what was it? George Clooney and, up in the air? Was that the name of it? Yeah. The million mile marker?

Rick Harris: 56:49

I I I'm not a million mile marker, but it really it it it kind of it's event and conference driven. And every now and again, it'll be a a phone call. Hey. Do you have time? Can you come in for this?

Rick Harris: 57:01

Can you come in for that? And that part has been fun. So and I I love to travel. I'm not I'm not ill at ease, you know, with the airports or with the planes.

Mel Renfrow: 57:12

Right? Yeah.

Rick Harris: 57:14

And so I've I've gotten a lot better at how I pack, what I pack, you know, 3.2 ounces, whatever the the number is nowadays for liquids. I think the one thing, you know, if you find yourself in any of the travel situations. Right? If you're going to the events and whatnot or you find yourself, going to one of the conferences, how I'm eating on the road, and, you know, being cognizant of those things that send you home in good health. The, it was I'll tell you what was crazy because I was still making some flights after, we'd shut down for COVID.

Rick Harris: 57:52

And things kind of reopened, and we were allowed to be within 6 plus feet

Mel Renfrow: 57:58

Right.

Rick Harris: 57:59

To be on an airplane with a flight crew and twenty, you know, a dozen other passengers, and everyone had 2 or 3 rows between them. That was almost eerie Yeah. But it was really pretty cool too. It was pretty neat.

Mel Renfrow: 58:13

Well, to get back, you know, try as things would return to normal. Right? Yeah. But, yeah, that was kinda like almost a private jet?

Rick Harris: 58:21

Yeah. Private 737. I mean, I think so, but, I think, yeah, I I I think, you know, learning how to watch what you eat, watch what you drink, how you pack, what you pack, and, you know, your carry on suitcase versus a this is a 4 day event. So learned a lot about that.

Mel Renfrow: 58:42

Well, I wanna thank you very much for being here. It was great talking to you.

Rick Harris: 58:46

You have been a great host. Thank you so much.

Mel Renfrow: 58:48

Thank you.

Rick Harris: 58:49

I appreciate it, Mel.