PCG Connect

Welcome to Inside Out, our newest series where we take a deep dive look at performance contracting services and product lines. We'll be talking to the movers and shakers of performance contracting, the folks who make the big deals and then bring those big deals to life. So with that, let's get to it. Well, welcome. Today, we have another episode of Inside Out.

So that's where we talk about, deep dive into different product lines. So we've gone into clean rooms and scaffolding, and today, we're going to be talking about industrial cleaning services. So I was lucky enough to, get the Tim's in here. So we have first off, Tim Lampard is here with us. So you're a regional manager out of, Houston.

Good morning.

Good morning.

And Tim Settles. So you're VP of operations in the east region. Correct?

Out of Indianapolis. Yes.

Very nice. So, Tim S.

Yes.

You have been here since the 1900, I believe.

Something like that. It's, 1995. March 95 is my service date. So going up on 29 years in March.

So how'd you find your way here? Your your dad worked for the company.

My dad did work

for us.

On a legacy, he was a vice president before he retired, early start. My first opportunity with the company was, in Tennessee at Watts Bar Nuclear Power Plant. 1st, right out of college, just go out to a nuclear power plant, and let's build this thing.

And there you go. Baptism by fire.

That's right.

Yeah. So where where was that? Was it in the middle of nowhere?

It's out in the middle of, nowhere in, Spring City, Tennessee. And, you know, it's it's a project, nuclear plant that was built over 20 years, believe it or not. It start and stop and start and stop, and they finally got the 1st unit on, online. Well, several several years after that, 2001. I'm not sure the exact date it came online, but, it was a multiyear project.

How long were you on the job site, and then where did you go from there?

So our contract on that, job lasted about a year, and then, another contractor, Basco, who we worked for, took that over. And then from there, I went on to a, another power plant, and it's Gavin Station in Gavin, Ohio. It's AEP, Ohio. It's AEP, coal fired plant, or I worked on that. Then my career took me back to Indianapolis working for a joint venture partner of ours in Indianapolis, that did smaller general construction projects.

And then I came back fully to PCI, out of that joint venture and went to a project in Toyota project near Evansville. It's in Princeton, Indiana where we built, the new factory that Toyota uses to manufacture our vehicles.

So are you doing in on the insulation side? Is that what you're

Oh, yes. Mechanical insulation. All of my the first part of my career was in mechanical insulation.

And, Tim Lambert. So you I we're pretty close on our start dates. I think you're May of 2000?

That's correct.

So you

have me be. I was July 1st. So tell me how you got you came to the company and what, you know, what role you started him.

Yeah. So I had my introduction to PCI through my father. He had worked he worked for Bechtel Okay. And had worked over probably a 10, 15 year period with several PCI people, Glenn Frey, up on the Bell River Project in Michigan and down at South Texas Nuclear Project with Mark Batcheau and Mike Smith in the late eighties. And so when I was looking for someplace to land, he had recommended PCI.

I'd been working for about 6 years for a general contractor doing tenant finish work and things of that nature and looking for a company with better benefits. So I interviewed with Mike Smith, and that's how I got involved, came in as an estimator.

Okay. And was it in Houston?

In Houston.

Okay. So that's where you got started. So very cool. And you so you grew up in Indianapolis, didn't you?

I did. Yes.

Okay. And then and that's where you still are?

That's where I still am. Although I travel quite a bit out of that area.

I met

I don't know if I ever told you this. I think I met your dad before I met you. I was in, when I was an admin trainer, I was in Columbia, South Carolina, and he was rolling through town and stopped in to say hi to Sharon Brax and some others.

Interesting.

Yeah. Very good guy. Okay. So let's start off really, really basic. So, tell people for people that have no idea, what exactly is industrial cleaning?

Industrial cleaning encompasses many different things. First, I guess, the history is we we kinda got into industrial cleaning, through an acquisition of North Brothers in 1997. It wasn't a a product that the PCI regularly offered, and when we acquired them, North Brothers did have that offering. And all of that was centered around, Rockwood, Tennessee, where North Brothers, had a hub for industrial cleaning, really kinda carved out a niche, doing working in industrial plants, chemical plants, municipal plants, and and doing a a wide variety of services, from municipal sewer services to water blasting and power plants, to water blasting and vacuuming and chemical plants, just kind of a full spectrum of of product offerings. It was kinda new to PCI.

We kinda didn't know much about it. We we we began to develop policy and procedure around the product line because we really didn't have anything in place. And then it it kinda grew from there into Texas and some other heavy industrial markets into Memphis area through Calvert City, where there was a lot of power plants primarily centered along the Ohio River. There was a lot of work in that area, and and we kinda were able to expand those services centered really out of Rockwood initially into some other markets.

So it's the actual work itself, you have trucks. Right? And they go in and they suck out various things. So dust, things like that. So can you explain that part of it?

The other, Tim? Sure.

Kind of the core of our business is the vacuum services. We do both liquid and air vacuuming. So in in a power plant, we would be vacuuming up, you know, loose coal, fly ash, and a lot of the other byproducts that come there. And usually, transporting those to a to a cell within the plant for, on-site disposal of those things. And in the liquid realm, that really lends itself towards more of the petrochemical side of the business.

And so we will move fluids out of pits. And a lot of the business that uses, you know, airborne chemicals and things of that nature if you open up valves. So we have, 70 barrel trucks that attach scrubbers and clean the air so that as we're removing those fluids, we don't release any of that into the air. That's turned out to be a quite a nice niche business for us as well. And then in the hydro excavation side of the business, we're moving usually just dirt.

And it's a safer way to excavate when you don't know what's underground. And that's, most of our branches have gotten involved into that service. It bundles up really well with a lot of what the plant needs are. And some of the trucks that you use for hydro excavation can be duly used to vacuum other products.

Mhmm.

So a lesser known component is the high pressure type work, which really isn't so much the trucks. Okay. But it's a very significant part of our business, and it kinda rolls up well with that industrial cleaning services bundle. So in that case, we're removing, film and cutting solids, including metal and concrete in some cases, and also doing ice blasting to remove some of these things, which is,

What is ice blasting? It sounds like a superpower somebody a superhero would have.

Yeah. Seattle's created quite a nice niche up in their market with using dry ice to blast products off, say, at a plant like Boeing and then vacuum up or sweep up the debris that remains.

So it sounds like this is between, like, the chemicals that are in the air, you know, it can be a high high risk. So do the workers do you have to have special certifications and things like that in order to perform this type of work?

So I guess to start with, our our business is really regulated by the Department of Transportation. And so that's something that we have to be very careful about, protect our shareholders, and watch how we operate. So over the road drivers are all CDL

Mhmm.

Licensed drivers, and some of them have additional endorsements for class a and class b type work. And then as you get into the the niche portions of the business for hydro excavation, for example, you know, excavation already has OSHA regulations that govern that part of the business. And so our workers have to be trained in that. Usually, we use a third party for that, but sometimes we'll do recertification as we have train the trainer type people. And in the in the high pressure blasting portion of the business, we have a very specific training program.

We're dealing with pressures ranging you know, our low pressure range would be anywhere from 3 to 5000 PSI. But in our high pressure part of the business, it would be, you know, 10,000 to 40000 PSI when you get into, you know, cutting solids like fly ash that's hard

and concrete and steel. Very dangerous work. So to your point, yes, where there's a lot of safety gear and safety training that's involved with this product line, that we're renewing constantly and, specialized equipment that that our people are wearing from turtle suits to when when doing high pressure blasting to, metatarsal boots so that they can't cut their feet with with these lances and whatnot?

Well, I think one thing we're really good at is finding niche niche product lines and things to do, so this certainly certainly falls into that. I can't let it go. What is a turtle suit? I'm I'm picturing, like, Donatello, Michelangelo.

Not exactly like that, but kinda. It's just a highly, protective suit that is hardened so that we can't cut through it, basically.

Yeah. You know, the business sounds dangerous, and certainly there are dangerous elements to it, but there's a lot of, PPE

Mhmm.

And safeguards that are built into the thing. So our biggest challenge is making sure that we've trained our people on how to properly use all those things. Because when those processes are in place, it really helps to neutralize those hazards, and and we can then bring our best in class performance like we do in our other product lines.

That's right.

And you guys are in town this week because we're having a summit where you're checking back in and you you hold those routinely. We go into, like, how do we stay on top of that? What training do we need? All that that type of stuff.

Yeah. And the industrial cleaning product line was one of the first product lines in our company to develop a full standard operating procedure for how we do things. And we've gone through several iterations of updating and improving that because, you know, training is very crucial with this group. And so, yeah, this week, we're bringing some of our subject matter experts up here to you know, we've got 2 or 3 open action items that we wanna work on and rewording and revising our manual. And sometimes best way to do that is just bring all those guys together and and hammer it out.

Very true. So special, shout out to Cindy Crooks, who's instrumental in all of that.

She really is. She's the glue that holds us all together for sure.

Let's go into so we started when we acquired North Brothers in Tennessee. So kinda talk about the evolution. When did you first, Tim Settles, when did you first get introduced to the product line?

So I had some, introduction, you know, early in my career, but I really wasn't involved in this coming up in my career as we talked about it. I was in mechanical insulation primarily, and I really when I had oversight for that in, you know, about the 2,000 and 10 time frame is really when I kinda dug into the business. We had had some preliminary, as Tim said, preliminary manuals that we develop, operating procedures, and we really kind of dug into that initially and said, hey. How do we improve this even further? You know, we had a great baseline that, Steve Barnes really was instrumental in putting in place before his retirement that we really wanted to dig in on and and, as Tim said, continue to work on, develop, and improve.

And and so that's what we did, and and you just learn so much by by digging in and going through that process. And and as the experts and the people with the technical knowledge are talking about, hey. This is what this means, and this is, you know, the the risk item here and digging in and actually in firsthand, they're really the experts, and the answers came from them. But it was just organizing that and getting that into a manual and and the set of operating procedures that we really, really live and die by. So

When did Texas first get involved with it? Can you remember, like, the first time you were involved with a project that hadn't?

Yeah. In Texas, we saw an opportunity on our NRG contract. There was a lot of vacuum work that needed to be done, and we had a pretty robust multi craft business there with scaffold insulation, coatings, and and janitorial services that we looked at. This is an opportunity to expand that business. Esley was really helpful in bringing some trucks over and kinda doing a joint venture type arrangement with us on that work.

And so those trucks came over. And over the course of, I would say, about the next 2 years, we began performing more and more work for NRG and started buying our own equipment.

Mhmm. And so

it was a really nice way to get into the business because this is a fairly capital intense product line.

Yeah. Because of all the the vehicles you you have to own.

It's, it's not uncommon today for these trucks to run-in the 350,000 to 500,000 range to purchase one of these trucks. So you really don't wanna get too far out in front of your skis.

You wanna make sure you have the work

to You wanna make sure you have the work to do that. So where we could do it with branches that already had equipment and just utilize that equipment to a greater extent, It made a lot of sense. Everybody won in that arrangement and allowed us to ease our way into the business in a way that protected our shareholders.

So do you know roughly how many trucks we have today?

Great question. I would say there's plus or minus 40 in Knoxville, plus or minus 10 in Calvert City. I don't know how many Houston has. Probably

plus or minus 50.

It seems like it's just expanded, you know, obviously. You mentioned Seattle. So what what branches actually are the most involved with this right now?

Yeah. So Knoxville, we we've talked about. Memphis, their Calvert City satellite is involved. They also have, some work at e EKPC in Kentucky. What's that?

Eastern Kentucky Power Cooperative. And, so then Houston's obviously involved, and then Seattle, is, I wouldn't say they're the full line, but they're they're heavily involved in some water blasting with some key customers that, like Tim said, Boeing and and other customers in the Seattle market.

What are some of the you mentioned power plants and and things like that. What other are there any, projects you'd like to highlight or any big wins that we've had as an organization?

Well, for the Houston Group, NRG has been a big a big win for those guys. They do quite a bit of industrial cleaning type work in them. They do hydro excavation. They do the high pressure work and the vacuum. And even the mostly air vacuum, but even to a lesser extent, some of the liquid vacuum and some of the the pits that are out there and and have fluids that collect that need to be, you know, cycled through.

So that's been a big win for those groups. And I think primarily because not only were they able to secure the truck work, but a lot of the labor work that came alongside that.

Yeah. So it's bundling services basically with other things we're already doing, out there for NRG.

I think the other area I would highlight would be, our municipal work in Knoxville. And, we we really make some nice margins at that business. Elise Brown and Knoxville's kinda headed that up for us. And and, you know, we we in some niche markets, we can make, you know, plus or minus 50% margin on some of that sewer cleaning and camera work that we do there.

I like it. That's a thumbs up.

Yeah. Another win for the company is, especially in our branches that bundle up quite a few services, Scaffold and insulation are hard entry points in very competitive markets, but this isn't nearly as competitive in some places. And so sometimes we can introduce our services through industrial cleaning, getting into work, doing scrubber work, or hydro excavation, or some vacuum work, kinda fly in under the radar. And then once we're in there and we get a a service agreement with them, we can introduce our other services.

Is most speaking of service agreements or is most of the work through like a master service agreement as opposed to individual contracts? Or is it a mixed bag?

It's a mixed bag. You know, certainly, the goal is to get in and try to develop maintenance type work that's sustainable. Because, again, this being a high equipment capital product line, we need that work that is sustainable. So the call out work is is the toughest part for us to man when people just, you know, have this emergency response stuff or they need a short term project because we do utilize our fleet at a pretty high rate, keeping it usually north of 65, 70% utilized. So fitting that work in and CDL drivers in this market are a real high premium.

And hard to find now.

And hard to find. And, as as we all know, and what makes it harder to find these guys in this market is you can find all kinds of people that are willing to drive trucks across country. But that's not what PCI is asking out of our guys. You know, we're asking them to not just, you know, drive these trucks and have those skills, but then once they get there to, you know, put on a turtle suit or all the PPE we have and get out there and do some work Would it work? Along with the technician.

So, you know, it's we've all seen the pictures of the guys that show up in in shorts and flip flops, and those guys can't work for us.

Yeah.

And so it it does create a real challenge for our people to man these projects.

Yeah. And it really is hard, just hot dirty work, you know, and to get people that wanna work in that environment, it's increasingly challenging.

Let's talk about joint ventures. So do you have opportunities in that in that realm at all, or are there future opportunities?

Well, I would say for sure, Tim, you know, indicated earlier that they kinda got into, this work, that's product line, through a joint venture with Knoxville, going back in the day. And it was a they were JV before the JV was a thing. Right? So, but, yeah, I think there is opportunities to, take the equipment that we have in in our existing markets and utilize that and others through joint ventures, for sure. And these are big trucks, but they're on wheels and they roll, and we can take them into, you know, really any market.

I think recently, Tim had done some work, with Phoenix at at Intel, and so they were able to transfer some of their trucks out there and do some some digging and whatnot in that market. So that'd be a great example of something maybe you

wanna talk about, Tim. Yeah. You know, the joint venture work, it needs to be of a certain size for it to make sense and for us to travel those resources in, but that was the opportunity that presented itself up at the Intel plant in Phoenix where we had hydro excavation work that was gonna be done 50 or 60 hours a week for 4 to 6 months, and it actually turned out to be quite a bit longer than that. We put started out with a couple of trucks up there and then evolved to 4 trucks. And that worked out real nicely.

We finished up that work and came back to Houston.

So, you mentioned all the different types and on some of them up to 50% margin. Is is there one type that yields higher margins, hydro excavation or any or are they all pretty? It just kinda depends like other work. It depends on the owner and the timing and all of that.

As a whole, you know, just a broad swath, the product line is a 20% plus or minus, product line. But there are initiatives, like, where specialized equipment for combination trucks are used to clean a sewer pipe. Or sometimes there's blockages, and we can get in there with our camera equipment and see where that is, cut that out, use high pressure, equipment to pull that or blast that those blockages up. And and so, you know, some of that, it it lends itself to, higher margins. But but as a whole, I would say, Tim, what do you say, to 20 20% plus or minus as a whole across the board?

Yeah. I think most of our groups, you know, average in that 22 to 25% range. And I think the simple answer to the, you know, the margin question is is the more expensive equipment that's more difficult for people to get their hands on, you know, 20 k, 40 k work, some of the hydro excavation services, those tend to produce better margins for us because it's more difficult for people to just jump into that business. Probably the lowest margin part of this is the air vacuuming.

Just because there's a lot of competition.

What's important to that part of the business is that's kind of our bread and butter work that keeps all of our people busy. So we'll have those guys cross train so that as the other work comes up, we can go man those projects.

In some areas, I would say, you know, we're even trying to right size what makes sense for the company. You know? In some areas, dirty power, which is kind of the backbone of this vacuuming work, is is coming down. They're closing, you know, dirty power plants, coal coal fired power plants, and, and so we've had to, you know, get the right mix of equipment. So we might be reducing our vacuum fleet and adding to our combination fleet so that we can capture the market that's available to us.

So the combination fleet, so that's both vacuum and then whether they have the excavation and the other capabilities?

Sure. There's different there's different kind of trucks, that we have, and, you know, Tim can tell you too, but they're you know, we have a combination of trucks that'll allow us to do multiple things. Municipal sewer service or get we can also dig with those trucks and and really do light vacuuming with those trucks. And there's also just a dedicated vacuum truck that really all they it's it's a big shop vac on wheels, and and so they'll go around and just suck up debris and fly ash as Tim said and other dirt. And then there's, there's water tank trucks that that haul haul water that's needed.

Tim has quite a few of those. And there's What other trucks, Tim?

Well, scrubber trucks that, you know, remove some of the particulate out, so, you know, for clean air. And in a lot of markets where environmentally, air quality is looked at real highly, you know, that niche business is pretty good. So those trucks too can they're a 70 barrel truck on their own, so they could just do regular hauling of liquid. But having that scrubber system on it, they can also, you know, help capture those VOCs so that we're plants are maintaining their air permits that they're required to do with the environmental agencies.

There's also dedicated, just excavation, hydro excavation trucks. This is just set up to carry water and excavate, hydro or pneumatic. So, there's various different kinds of equipment. We have a lot of all different types that, are very specialized for different niches in in the industrial cleaning market.

I think if, for people listening, if you're interested, you can go to the website and click on, products, and they'll have, there's pictures and things like that out. So if you're curious, you can look there for more. I'm not right, Daniel. Daniel's a website guy, so had he wears many hats here.

For sure.

Producer, website. So are there any opportunities for innovation in this area? Are you hearing any word on the street of new things out on the market? Or I know you're a big research, guy, Timel. So

Yeah. I think our most exciting opportunity for innovation, and we just talked about this at our workshop back in October, is in the hands free high pressure work. So as the industry is evolving, we're all looking for ways to do things safer. There's a lot of technology that has been developed over the last several years where that high pressure work can be done hands free. And so we're, in fact, getting ready to buy some of our first hands free equipment and start using it in some of our branches really in the next several months, that's probably the most exciting area of innovation that we're seeing out there.

I think to a lesser extent, some of the pneumatic hydro excavation, it's a little lesser known, but using air to excavate the soil instead of, you know, putting so much water in there is is kind of a a newer niche that we've gotten into. Several of our branches have these trucks, and it has the advantage. While it's a little bit slower, You're not constantly hauling off a lot of water, which is what happens when you're cutting with with water. And then the soils don't have to dry out so long before you put the stuff back into the into the ground. So that doesn't work in every soil type, but, certainly, there's been some opportunities for us to to get involved, and and it kinda puts us on the the front end with our customers to see that we can do it both ways.

Yeah. That sounds so interesting. I'll have to go in and and look at that.

The only other thing I would add is some of our camera equipment, I think, is pretty innovative. You know, we we've have we have camera equipment that we can insert into a manhole and and bring it up, and it flattens and creates a a digital image of the of the circular manhole all the way up. It flattens it, and we can do an inspections based upon it. It's a really high definition picture of that manhole. Is there cracks?

Is there crevices that need to be fixed? Are there interferences that need to be worked on? And and we can see all that, and we deliver that with those notes to our customers and let them know what they need to do to fix their equipment or their their, infrastructure that we're working on.

That's really cool. Are either this is a dumb question. Either of you, TikTok or your kids?

No. No. This

is very embarrassing that I'm gonna admit this. So, sometimes I will go down this rabbit hole where there's these people, all they do is they go out and they, like, will unclog a drain. It's so boring, but yet fascinating. You can't look away. Like, are they going to unclog it?

So that's what I'm picturing when you're talking about this, you know, where people kind of have before and after, whether it's excavation or the

It is literally that, Mel. So we'll we'll go into a sewer line, and we'll we'll stick a camera in. We'll actually and from both ends of manhole to manhole, we'll see where there's a blockage, And we can put our, water equipment in there, unblock that clog, if you will. Mhmm. And then we camera it again, and we show the customer that this was your clog.

Have it all on video. We and we clear it out, and then we recamera and say we've you know, show them how we remove their their clog, essentially, if you will.

Daniel has yet another job. He's gonna start a TikTok account of it now, and he thumbs up. He's game for it. So I

do stuff.

And, you know, Mel, in that same municipal service niche of the business, you know, a lot of what cities are wrestling with now is is how they handle their storm water and and what happens to that storm water that they're having to to manage as well as, you know, the sewer water. And we have equipment that will put smoke into these lines underground as well as being able to map it. And and literally, you will find the smoke coming up out of the ground, and it will help to identify places that there are cracks in the lines that need to be repaired so that we're not spending a ton of money processing, you know, waters that that are just escaping.

Yeah.

But we can fix those things for them. So in that municipal service line, there's a lot of pretty cool stuff that those guys do.

Yeah. That's really cool. I was just reading an article. It's basically talking about how a lot of the infrastructure that was put into place right after World War 2 here, you know, when there was a lot of money being put back into communities. You know, it's been a long time now, and it hasn't been looked at.

So a lot of that is, you know, wearing out.

Absolutely. There's a lot of, money in the infrastructure bill that was recently passed that is going to, I think, lend itself well to, an opportunity for us in these markets.

Very cool. I always like when we can tie things that are in current events and things that you hear in the news and how it ties back, you know, to our our company. Michael Curtin was in here talking about the, marine work, which is is tied to a lot of the things that pass in law. So is there any misconceptions, I guess, about the product line? We call it Mythbusters.

Is there anything out there where you feel like people have a misunderstanding what the product line is or isn't?

I think when I first thought about this product line, I envisioned us as being one of those contractors that is constantly running over the road from place to place. And 90, 95% of our work all happens inside of plants.

Oh, really?

So we're really not out on the road as much. I mean, if you were to see one of our trucks on the road, it would just be literally going from going out to the job site. It's very rare that we do transport of anything outside of our plants.

I think the only exception to that would be the municipal work where

we

actually are parking on the roads in a lot of cases and doing street, you know, traffic control and and to to sewer to clean these sewer lines and to inspect these sewer lines. So there other

than that, you're right.

I I would say most of the work is at an industrial plant site.

And those those trucks are largely parked while they're working. For sure. You know, we're not really a transportation company in that sense.

Yeah. And we don't really wanna be either

We don't wanna be that that person.

You know, we've talked about branches getting into different lines of work. What are your feelings on this? Is this something that we're looking to add to people's, repertoire, or is it so specialized it's kind of a case by case thing?

I think our best opportunities, for growth in this product line are in the markets that we're already in. Mhmm. You know, our 4 core niche businesses in industrial cleaning, the municipal, the air and liquid vacuum, the hydro excavation, the high pressure work, there's a lot of opportunities to expand those in our existing markets and especially with the with the infrastructure bill. There's going to be, you know, more dollars there in some of these municipalities and plants to to take advantage of. Outside of our current locations, probably our best opportunities would be on joint ventures where there's enough work for that to make sense.

And in those cases, though, we're usually partnering with existing branches that are already in the product line.

So if an estimator or manager pre cons listening to this, what, I guess, is there anything they should look out for? When should they give you guys a call?

Just at the front end. You know? We have people that are specialized in in the 4 sectors that, Tim mentioned, and and we can get them aligned with the subject matter expert and and from the very beginning. And they can work through, does it make sense for the company and does it make sense, for us to pursue? And once that's that's established and and the pursuit is on, then, we have the experts that can that can, really bring bring the project home.

So

Is is there anything you wanna touch on that we didn't we didn't get a chance to talk about?

You know, I would think one thing that is worth worth mentioning is, you know, some of our big competitors in the commercial and industrial markets, tend to bundle up scaffold and insulation coatings, and that's very typical, especially companies like Brock, Brand, Apache. One of the things that we bring through this product line that's unique is none of those guys do industrial cleaning services. So it has given us a little bit of a wrinkle that some of our competitors don't have. I think where that's been a little bit of a challenge for us is that we only do it in a limited number of markets, but it does happen to be those more high industrial locations.

Well, with that, okay, I'm gonna ask you just one silly question before you get out of here. Favorite Christmas song or 'tis the season. I don't know when this is gonna air, but we're recording this kinda mid mid December.

Well, that's easy for me. It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.

Yeah. That's a good that's a solid one.

Yeah. I think mine is chestnuts roasting on an open fire.

Very nice. Maybe.

Is that

kind of bringing out the romanticism on you, Tim?

Maybe. Maybe, Tim. I don't know.

Oh, that's funny. We have a karaoke track, hit it, Daniel. You guys you can sing along. Just kidding. Okay.

Well, I wanna thank

I don't wanna hear that.

I wanna thank both of you for taking the time to sit in today. Hopefully, it wasn't too scary.

Very scary. But thank you very much for walking us through it. Yeah. I believe it

is Daniel do a great job at keeping it moving and putting us at ease. So appreciate that.

Well, and thank you for educating everybody here in the company. These, people like listening to these and especially, at the corporate office where you're not as ingrained in, all of the operations and don't realize all the different product lines we do. So we really appreciate you taking the time to come in and help educate us.

Thanks for having us.