PCG Connect

Brett Dahmer: 00:07

So Santa Barbara, how's, how's Santa Barbara?

Wyatt Jenkins: 00:10

Santa Barbara is great. I feel like, I landed in I just I've got really lucky, you know, landing in a place like that. And, when I got to Santa Barbara, I had just, one daughter and then COVID hit and we decided to have a COVID baby. So now I have 2 daughters and, and, yeah, we'll be there till they leave till they graduate and leave the house. If they leave the house, I don't know if that's still a thing.

Wyatt Jenkins: 00:33

Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 00:34

I think it's different now for sure.

Wyatt Jenkins: 00:36

So, look, I'd love to hear about how you got to where you are here. You know, you and I have spent a lot of time together Sure. Working on the PCG and Procore relationship. And I don't I don't know if I know your whole backstory and how you got to to where you are.

Brett Dahmer: 00:51

Yeah. So prior to this, major league athlete, big time. No. I'm just kidding.

Wyatt Jenkins: 00:56

No. No. That's true.

Brett Dahmer: 00:57

No. Honestly, pretty simply put, I kinda grew up construction, grew up here in Kansas City. My family has deep roots in the construction space here. It was, kind of our family either was in the car business or the construction business, and I was in the construction lane. So, grew up doing a lot of that work.

Brett Dahmer: 01:17

My dad was union carpenter. He and his brother started a small shop here when I was in elementary school doing interior system stuff, and, honestly, there wasn't much they didn't do as a new business. They've kinda just hustled all the time and ended up growing a business that was, I don't know, it was probably a top 3 or 4 business here in town. And then when I was in high school, performance contracting came along and purchased that business. So, you know, hey.

Brett Dahmer: 01:47

My nights and weekends and things like that were always helping my dad in the shop and scrapping out job sites and doing all those sorts of things. And then, my world was pretty small, I guess, I would tell you at that time, and maybe it still is even a little bit today, but kind of all that evaporated when PCI came in town, or that's kinda how it seemed when I was 17. I was like, oh, man. This whole going to college thing, I'm actually gonna have to take seriously and and start thinking about, which I somewhat did. But, but, yeah, fast forward, went to college and, was working with still with some family, kinda hustling a different, our own construction business and Mhmm.

Brett Dahmer: 02:26

Built a a house or 2 and and doing some stuff like that. And, then the recession set in. So performance 08 1? Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 02:34

Everything got really slow here in town, and an opportunity kind of came up to circle back to PCI. At that time, my dad and all but one of his brothers had, retired, and, I came back and met with our CFO, Alan, and been here 18 years almost now. So

Wyatt Jenkins: 02:54

was the first job?

Brett Dahmer: 02:56

So I actually came in through internal audit that lasted about 6 months or 9 months. That was kinda that used to kinda be the gate to get through, I think. But quickly realized that probably wasn't a great fit for me and and, started working as a regional controller, working kinda along the finance side of our business with the operations. So Cool.

Wyatt Jenkins: 03:16

Yeah. So you've been, like, probably 15 years, 7 to 16 years. Is that

Brett Dahmer: 03:20

right? So, started in 06. So coming up on 18.

Wyatt Jenkins: 03:24

18 years. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome.

Brett Dahmer: 03:26

And, honestly, when I started, I mean, pretty candidly, I was like, man, I might do this a couple years and and, get through this glut in the economy and and then probably get back after it. And, honestly, it's been a great fit for me, so I I never really thought again about leaving. So

Wyatt Jenkins: 03:42

That's great.

Brett Dahmer: 03:42

It's, that's been good. How about you, though? You've got a little more dynamic story there.

Wyatt Jenkins: 03:47

Well, it's a I kinda fell into a bunch of things, but but but similar roots. And we talked about this Yeah. When we first met. Yeah. My parents were in construction, and my dad ran a Jenkins Communications Inc, was my dad's my last day, my dad's company, and built cell phone towers, in that big boom in the eighties nineties.

Wyatt Jenkins: 04:09

So when I was a kid growing up in Denver, Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, my dad was building cell phone towers. And so from a very young age in the summers, I was on the job site helping him do that. And so, you know, that was my summer job through through high school. And and so I'd pull, you know, whatever you let a kid do. Pull cable, I'd frame, I would fetch coffee, I would climb the pole, you know,

Brett Dahmer: 04:35

to all the stuff.

Wyatt Jenkins: 04:36

All all that. And and, and so that was a family business, and I rebelled against it. And so after doing it, I kinda said, okay. I'll never do this. This is you know?

Wyatt Jenkins: 04:47

And so my as a young kid, I somewhere in college there, I, you know, was doing it a lot more and a lot more. And I, I decided I'm going to go a totally different direction. It was a different direction. I became a DJ. So I started playing music and writing music and yeah, I did a full more than a decade being a DJ and musician and flying around the world and playing music for people.

Wyatt Jenkins: 05:10

So that was a really weird life. Yeah. Most of that story is better told over beers. And then, and then I as a DJ, I there was I was trying to solve my problem. I was carrying records all over the world, and I MP Threes were getting popular in the late nineties.

Wyatt Jenkins: 05:29

And so I started a company. We didn't mean for it to be a company, but I I built a me and some friends built a website for selling m p threes on the Internet, around 2,001, 2,002, and, and that became a company. And so the next thing you know, I'm I'm now I was a DJ, and now I'm running a very small company, and that company got bigger and bigger. And then I became sort of the founder of a technology company, and that was around 2002. It's called Beatport, and that is still around.

Wyatt Jenkins: 05:57

So people that are into electronic music go to Beatport and download electronic music. And that got me into tech. And then from there, I've worked at a bunch of tech companies. I did Beechport. I was at Shutterstock.

Wyatt Jenkins: 06:10

Shutterstock, I got to grow up. I got to go from a joint when it was about 30 people, and I left when it was about 2,000 and took it public in 2012. And I learned how to scale and be and lead at a larger at a larger company. And then I worked at an analytics company in in the Bay Area and in Silicon Valley, called Optimizely. Then I worked at Patreon.

Wyatt Jenkins: 06:35

So Moved around. Bunch of tech companies. And then my wife and I moved moved to Santa Barbara as we were talking about, and, I I wasn't sure if I was gonna keep I don't know what I was gonna do next. I had no job, but I was I was gonna take a long break. And then, I got a phone call from a recruiter, who was like, hey, there's a technology company in Santa Barbara.

Wyatt Jenkins: 06:55

And I was like, oh, is it Procore? Because I know I've heard of Procore. And I met Tui, the founder. He's one of the reasons I joined. He he's just a really, authentic leader who is doing what he loves.

Wyatt Jenkins: 07:10

You know, he's he's he's having fun. He's he's, back in 2002, he was building a lot, and there was no technology for construction. And the technology that was around for construction was very old, kinda dated ERP type technology. Right? That was that was all there was, and he's, like, trying to build a house.

Wyatt Jenkins: 07:32

He's like, this this is awful. So it inspired him, and he began building software, for this industry. And the stories as the head of product, I'm I'm in charge of the road map. But, like, 2, he has a million ideas that, you know, he's he's got road map ideas, a 100 a minute. And I think his curse is he's really a visionary, and that's a tough thing sometimes because a lot of times too, his idea is right in, like, 10 years.

Brett Dahmer: 08:08

You just can't get there yet.

Wyatt Jenkins: 08:09

Yeah. It's just like, yep. It's a great idea. But and, and I think there was a little bit of that with Procore because, you know, he was trying to build SaaS software in 2002. And he Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 08:21

Before that was a thing.

Wyatt Jenkins: 08:22

Yeah. And and he tells me stories of him and Steve's arm, our our president, going to job sites and climbing up poles, hanging Internet routers in a job site, trying to convince people, like, hey. We'll give you a free Internet service on your job if you'll buy Procore, like, these crazy stories. And so it seems like I mean, obviously, it was a good idea, but it was very, very early to be building SaaS for for an industry that's outside and in shitty and and in regions where the connectivity is shitty. You know, like, it's just, it was really early.

Brett Dahmer: 08:57

So help us out with SaaS real quick because I'm I'm guessing there's a lot of people that may not know exactly that term.

Wyatt Jenkins: 09:02

Software as a service. So software that you purchase that is a recurring you know, every year you pay a recurring amount for a piece of software as a service. And one of the things we're doing on the road map coming, you know, in the future is we're we're gonna turn everybody's mobile device into a into a network. That way, if you do have shitty connectivity on the job site, you know, at least the devices can create a web and, you know, you can still get download things from Procore at least.

Brett Dahmer: 09:33

Nice.

Wyatt Jenkins: 09:34

We can't create the Internet for you there, but we can create a a network for you to access the things you need to do

Brett Dahmer: 09:39

on the job site. And so You know, I know you guys have navigated changes in the economy, took the company public about, what, a year and a half ago, I think?

Wyatt Jenkins: 09:47

2021.

Brett Dahmer: 09:48

Okay. So couple years

Wyatt Jenkins: 09:49

May 2021. Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 09:51

So that's a feat in itself to stay funded for 20 plus years, go public, have a successful IPO Yeah. And have a stable and growing product, you know, in this space. Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 10:04

It feels really good to sort of be back in the family business

Brett Dahmer: 10:06

Sure.

Wyatt Jenkins: 10:07

After 22 years in building technology companies. Yeah. And so now my retired general contractor father and I have way better conversations over Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners, and I tell them about all the cool tech I'm building at Procore to help help people build, and, it feels really good.

Brett Dahmer: 10:27

Yeah. No. I think that's interesting. I mean, it doesn't seem to matter where in the country you go. Construction in most regions and most markets, it comes down to a really tight, almost family like, you know, environment that people have come up in and and that it still operates today, which is is pretty impressive.

Brett Dahmer: 10:45

It's pretty amazing. So Yeah. Yeah. It's great industry.

Wyatt Jenkins: 10:48

I love that part of the job. You know, I was in I've been on 2 job sites this week. You know? I was I was in one in, in Austin and another one in Los Angeles, earlier on Monday, and it's just, you know, that's where I get my energy from.

Brett Dahmer: 11:00

Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 11:00

I get to I watch people work, and I think about how our technology can can make it faster, better, smarter. And Yeah. This is this is what gets me out of bed in the morning.

Brett Dahmer: 11:09

Yeah. You certainly can see opportunity all around us. I mean, you really can. It's an in industry that has been underinvested in for a long, long time. It's really kinda one of the last remaining that hasn't seen, in a lot of ways, significant disruption from automation and and other sorts of, process change, I guess.

Brett Dahmer: 11:29

And, and, yeah, it seems like it's there's a lot of opportunity there.

Wyatt Jenkins: 11:33

There's a ton of opportunity. There's reasons, you know, I now that I'm 4 years in to building technology for construction, we you know, when I before I joined, I I had this, like, oh, construction's a laggard industry. That was what I thought. Now that I'm in it, I don't believe that. In in certain ways, construction is is like tip of the spear.

Wyatt Jenkins: 11:57

I mean, a lot of companies I'm seeing are, like, the early adopters of drone technology and visual progress tracking with computer vision. I'd say in a lot of ways, construction's leading on on certain vectors of technology and and pushing the boundaries. But is the industry as a whole under digitized? Yes. And and the reason for that is a good one.

Wyatt Jenkins: 12:20

It's regulated, and it needs to be safe. And, you know, and for a lot of reasons, if I'm a large construction company, I'm probably not gonna roll out a technology on a 100% of my projects in one day. Yeah. Like, that's just not safe, and it's not efficient. It's a it's a waste of time, honestly, because a bunch of your projects, I'm like, what is this?

Wyatt Jenkins: 12:41

You have to be thoughtful about rolling out technology. And so the reason why tech why construction from my perspective is a little slower to adopt is because most of our customers have a pretty methodical approach. Okay. That's some great new tech. I'm gonna put it on 2 projects.

Wyatt Jenkins: 12:57

And if I like how that goes, I'm gonna put it on 5. And so the way technology rolls out through our industry is it is it rolls out, you know, a few projects at a time. And then when the projects wrap up, that's when you get a chance for more. And so that's just a more methodical technology rollout

Brett Dahmer: 13:17

approach. Yeah. We've, we've experienced really the same thing. Some of our best technologies are the ones that would hide that have the highest satisfaction rating were organic growth. It really wasn't something that was pushed down from the top.

Brett Dahmer: 13:30

It was something that proved its value in the field. And next thing you knew, you had several 100, if not, you know, nearly a 1000 users of certain things. So, we've had the same experience. I wanna circle back to something you you mentioned about, about TUI specifically. And I think for me, when I was when I was hearing you talk about that, it really those sorts of things, is really, I think, what kind of aligned this PCG and Procore relationship.

Brett Dahmer: 13:58

And and quite honestly, it was probably it was much about kinda shared values and shared vision for the industry, a passion for the industry, not just a product in the industry. And, as I think back of our journey, I mean, I think we've kinda been dating for 3, 4 years now.

Wyatt Jenkins: 14:17

3, 4 years.

Brett Dahmer: 14:17

From the first kinda meet and greets that Ryan and I had with some of the sales team to, you know, a 12 to 18 month process of kicking the tires on the product, being pretty critical of the product, seeing a lot of improvement on the product, until, you know, late last year, we ended up finally getting a deal done and and have, you know, kinda cemented that partnership, if you will. But, honestly, I mean, hey, the product, you know, we went through evaluating it against other, you know, products in the marketplace, and, you know, it's it's a little better here. It's a little not there, it's a little better here, the same stuff you've always heard, right? But that relationship that started to form, I think, is what really gave us confidence in moving forward. And, you know, people like yourself and and Tuohy and some of the leadership and, again, that shared vision and values that you that you have for the industry and how you view the people who do this work, I think was, something we we really latched on to.

Wyatt Jenkins: 15:20

I've been a head of product and engineering at other types of companies. And when I'm at at a tech company who serves many industries, I've done that twice in my career, and and both times were short stints. Because when you're a tech, like, a head of product at a tech company, you don't really know your customers that well. You know, when I was at an analytics company, I had customers that sold solar panels and customers that made toothpaste. And

Brett Dahmer: 15:49

Yeah. Sure. You know, like Everything in between.

Wyatt Jenkins: 15:51

Everything in between, and I was a technology vendor. Oh, we have analytics for you, you know, and and, it was felt really hollow to me that other people love this stuff. But, to me as a and the type of person I am, everything I've done in my life is is something I dive very, very deep into and become very intimate with, and then and I get energy from the customers we serve. And so in the tech industry, pro Procore, we call it vertical SaaS, meaning we only do one thing and that's construction. And when I met TUI, I was like, oh, it's it's just construction.

Wyatt Jenkins: 16:27

That means I get to go beyond job sites. I get to be very deep in my customers' businesses and understand the numbers they're trying to hit and their strategy and and actually build software that, like, meets them where they're at. You know? And and it's not just generic software that sort of does lots of things for lots of different people, but rather it's nuanced software that speaks a language that that folks in the field understand. That's what got me excited about the gig from from my perspective as a as a product person and technologist, was being being able to be that close to the the built world and to spend time like we did in the the period leading up to this deal, learning about the business, figuring out what the goals were, how we're gonna meet them.

Wyatt Jenkins: 17:12

I mean, you guys you guys change the product road map. There's parts of it we fast forwarded. You know what I mean? Because we were like, oh, if we're gonna go this direction with one of the largest specialty contractors in North America, we're we're gonna need to to fast forward these things. And, you know, that's that's that's a good thing.

Brett Dahmer: 17:30

Yeah. No. And, honestly, that was really, apparent, and that was something that I think and I I might be getting the numbers wrong, but throughout, you know, we we started this pilot process. We had a group from really across the country that that really jumped into a deep dive and started really pulling the levers and pushing the buttons and seeing what they liked and what they didn't like. And I think within 3 months, we had identified nearly a dozen things that we were like, hey.

Brett Dahmer: 17:57

These would almost be showstoppers for us just based on how we do things or maybe how our structure is is organized across the country. Long story short, I guess what we surprised, we we kinda thought the conversation would stop there. You know, we were being pretty critical of, a company that's been successful. Right? And we were just trying to figure out, like, will they do anything about it, or is this just the end of the road?

Brett Dahmer: 18:22

And maybe we'll talk again in a few years. And, hey, Ryan was a big part of that conversation. Adam and team from your side, were a big part of that, but I think we went from, like, 14 potential issues down to 5 Mhmm. Within about 60 days. And, you know, when Procore's kinda stood in the gap there and said, you know what?

Brett Dahmer: 18:41

Hey. That's actually some pretty good feedback. I think we can do something with that. And they did. That was that was really impressive to us and and gave us a lot of confidence with who we're moving forward with.

Brett Dahmer: 18:52

Because a lot of times you're like, oh, yeah. That's coming. You know? That's our next release. You know?

Brett Dahmer: 18:55

Yeah. And you hear that for 6 more years, and, and you never really quite get where you wanna go. But, I wanted to kinda jump back to to kind of the why for PCG and, you know, hey. Right now, we we have a great business. We have a lot of people doing things pretty well, quite honestly.

Brett Dahmer: 19:13

And, I think for a lot of the people that might be hearing this or kinda hearing the the noise of, oh, we're making this big switch, kinda like why? You know, it's not exactly broken. We're doing it. We're doing pretty okay.

Wyatt Jenkins: 19:27

You have a great business.

Brett Dahmer: 19:28

Yeah. Yeah. And, I think for me as as we really wrestled with that, it wasn't an easy, an easy question to answer or a decision to make. It was something that was really something heavy, and and some of the factors that went into that is, hey, we were looking for a partner. We do not wanna have to continue to carry the load internally of figuring out what is best in class for project management solutions.

Brett Dahmer: 19:54

You know, right now, we use a very fragmented approach. It works very well. But between different cloud storages and, you know, different tools for this and that, and T and M trackings here, and document management's here, and time sheets are completely different. We have a pretty siloed is a nice way to put it. Fragmented is probably more accurately a way to describe it.

Brett Dahmer: 20:18

And we knew that, hey, in time, that wasn't gonna serve us well, and we were already seeing that. No. Additionally, you layer on some internal transitions we made with, initiative 1 PCG, where we essentially eliminated 2 operating units and came together as 1 and said, hey, we're gonna service our markets in total, not as 2 very separate businesses. And with that, we saw the opportunity to bring some systematic consistencies to our businesses, where it used to kinda be, hey. We have this cool widget over here.

Brett Dahmer: 20:50

If you wanna use it, cool. If you don't, it doesn't hurt my feelings. Mhmm. I think now we're realizing, hey. If we wanna grow and if we want to meet our growth goals and be able to work together more effectively, we need a common language and a base layer that everybody understands, that everybody can use, that everyone can be productive in immediately.

Brett Dahmer: 21:11

And, and, we believe Procore helps us on that journey. And, again, not a perfect product. There's gonna be things that does very, very well, and there's gonna be things where we're like, gosh, I wish it did that. Right? And, what we've kind of evolved to finally as an organization, and I'm actually really proud of this, we were talking about it earlier, is we used to be very hesitant to take any step if we didn't know what the final step was.

Brett Dahmer: 21:34

And I think on finally, as an organization, we've hit a level of maturity that says we knew it. And we we know we need to take some steps regardless of if we know what final state looks like. Right? This is a journey, not necessarily a specific destination at this point. So,

Wyatt Jenkins: 21:50

it's really interesting.

Brett Dahmer: 21:51

Yeah. It's something that hey. We're we're very risk averse. That that is our business. We we manage risk.

Brett Dahmer: 21:57

We manage projects that would potentially have a liability or a lot of liability and exposure if they don't go right. So for us, we're very protective of what we commit to, both financially as well as with our time or technology or anything else. So I think that's been a really interesting journey for us, and it's really forced us to kinda make some tough decisions and and in some ways kinda grow up as an organization and pick a strategy and actually define it. So, partnering with Procore is actually a a bigger signal than probably what Procore realizes. So, yeah, I thought I think that's just some interesting context as to how we how we got to today.

Wyatt Jenkins: 22:40

Yeah. I I remember through our conversations, each one, I meet a couple of new people, and I'd hear a couple new perspectives, and I could and I and then a few times, you know, you confided in me. Yeah. Well, we've we've got some internal debates to have. You know, we've and I don't always know what those were, but you were just very candid with me, like, oh, there's we have to fit find what our principle is at PCI.

Wyatt Jenkins: 23:05

You know what I mean? And and that and then that that might take us some time, and that was so we were like, okay. And that that would be something I would put away in my, you know, in my notes and be like, yeah, it looks like they're gonna work through. Is there any is there any moments for you along the way that you thought were, like, pivotal decisions where it's like, you know what? That little decision right there actually led to us making a a bigger change as a company.

Brett Dahmer: 23:29

I think we got back to really forcing ourselves and and really with the partnership of Procore. I mean, I will say that the way you guys approach the relationship was was really spot on. A high pressure sales pitch wasn't going to be effective with us.

Wyatt Jenkins: 23:43

We did we did step on that at one point.

Brett Dahmer: 23:45

We tried. And it's we we we all backed away from the table pretty quick. But, again, even then, I mean, I immediately called Adam. I was like, dude. Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 23:55

That was not the right play. Like, we need to regroup. Totally. And you guys did. And you approached it differently, and we we did appreciate that.

Brett Dahmer: 24:02

You gave us the time we were looking for and even some additional insights, so we could make sure that this was the right decision for for us and where we're at today. But I think, again, more often than not, it really wasn't some big moment with, you know, the vision for the product or, oh my gosh, we're gonna save you 80% if you just do this. You know, there wasn't anything like that. It was it was kind of the care and custody and the respect you gave the process, I think, is what I would offer. I think, again, I know the company is bigger than TUI, but TUI is specifically reaching out to some of our key leaders and saying, hey.

Brett Dahmer: 24:39

I get it. You actually should take your time. This is something that, you know, we're not gonna roll into your boardroom and and throw a piece of paper in front of you and expect you to sign it. Like, this is this is something fundamental to your organization, and you need to you need to make sure that this is good alignment. I think that gave us a lot of confidence again and, like, okay.

Brett Dahmer: 24:59

The people we're working with really line up pretty well with us, and we'll figure the process out. We'll figure the technology out. We'll we'll get where we need to go and get what we need from that. But generally speaking, are we are we hopping in the bus with with the right people? Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 25:16

So

Wyatt Jenkins: 25:17

Yeah. With the with folks who care about the industry and care about your business and and yeah. And it's from our side, it's really exciting. We talked a lot about PCI. And and I think, you know, from my perspective, working with the largest specialty contractor is like a real exciting proposition.

Wyatt Jenkins: 25:37

I'm positive our product doesn't do everything you need it to yet. But I but I want it to. And and there's stuff I just don't even know yet because y'all are at a scale as a specialist, contractor that's that's very rare. You're just you're just a rare company. And so it's gonna push us too in ways that's gonna make us uncomfortable.

Wyatt Jenkins: 26:00

And I have to go rebuild a database somewhere and figure out how we're gonna scale to do that do that one particular workflow, but that's exciting for us too.

Brett Dahmer: 26:09

Yeah. And I think too on that, I I think that kind of is part of what builds us to this this place is there's really not a lot of technology products for specialty contractors. Everybody starts with either an owner or a general contractor, And most of the time, those tools aren't super effective for us. We get really granular in how we manage our work. And so, I mean, I I think I've told you before, we looked at Prolog and Procore and, our Bay Area group, one of our leaders looked at it, gosh, half a dozen years ago.

Brett Dahmer: 26:41

And and quite honestly, it was a pretty short look because we're like, yeah, we can tell already this isn't gonna meet our needs.

Wyatt Jenkins: 26:47

Mhmm.

Brett Dahmer: 26:48

And, you know, fast forward, that's that's continued to develop, and and we're in a better spot now. But for us internally, part of this decision is, hey. We have half a dozen developers here, that have, I think, throughout call it a 30 year journey, have put us ahead of our competition. All of a sudden, with all of this investment, I think, in in technology and construction, we're to a point where it doesn't matter how many people we hire, we can't keep up with the needs of the business, with what's changing around us from the technology space, specifically. There's there's no way to write enough code and produce enough tools to keep up with the times.

Brett Dahmer: 27:26

And then for us, we were finding ourselves always kind of in this deficit of having to maintain, update, rewrite, reintegrate, reconnect, and, we were doing more servicing of that antiquated technology than forward looking improvements. So,

Wyatt Jenkins: 27:45

for

Brett Dahmer: 27:45

us, again, a big decision as we as we move forward with Procore.

Wyatt Jenkins: 27:50

Yeah. It is I remember that part of the conversation you and I had about being a tech company. You know? And and every company I think is is now a tech company to some extent. Mhmm.

Wyatt Jenkins: 28:02

Because because AI and software are just becoming prolific. It's just in our lives. And so we all have to just figure out in what ways are we all a tech company. And and but, you know, servicing SaaS software and upgrading to all the latest security patches and making sure that, you know, you you're constantly feeding the constantly feeding the foundations of it to scale. That alone is a is a monstrous effort.

Wyatt Jenkins: 28:28

I think I you know, we spent something like 30% of our r and d on just keeping the technology up to date, getting it to the latest version of that code, getting it to the latest security patches. That's that's we have, 1400 people in r and d, and about 30% is maintaining and up updating. And yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 28:53

That sort of depth of resource right there is is exactly what we would obviously never have. Right? You guys are working on solutions for the total of the industry and, you know, we we just came to the realization, like, we we cannot keep up and put out that quality of a product, much less continue to be progressive and at the front of that cutting edge. So, that was a that was a no brainer for us. But, yeah, the organization's been really impressive so far to to work alongside, And I know you guys have experienced a lot of growth too.

Brett Dahmer: 29:28

Founded in 2002, right? Chewy kinda had a vision for this and and him and maybe a few other folks at the beginning, and now you guys are close to $1,000,000,000, I think. And Crossed it. Yeah. Okay.

Brett Dahmer: 29:39

You did. Alright. Awesome. Crossed it. Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 29:40

Q one this year. What a milestone.

Brett Dahmer: 29:42

Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 29:43

You know, in Procore, we are 2 we started in 2002, but I always try to tell people. Procore between 2,002,008, I think it it's obviously all predates me, but it got to, like, a 150 people maybe. Mhmm. And then in the recession, went back down to, like, I think, 20 Oh, wow. Or 30 people, and then kinda crawled back up very slowly.

Wyatt Jenkins: 30:05

And then when mobile got popular, really started to take off, especially mobile connectivity on sites. Right? And so really, Procore's growth is around 2013. And then 2013 through 2019 was was wild. Yep.

Wyatt Jenkins: 30:20

Like Yeah. Like bananas kind of hypergrowth, you would call it, in tech. And then, of course, COVID happened, which kinda reshifted everybody's perspective. And then, you know, good good more steady, but good growth since then. Right?

Wyatt Jenkins: 30:37

And so it it's it's a 22 year old company sort of, but really it's sort of more like a 9 year old company because I feel like the a lot happened between 2013 and today. That's so, yeah, when you think about the life cycle of of Procore. But, yeah, TUI Tui was building houses. And he was, like, there's no software for this? Like, are you kidding me?

Wyatt Jenkins: 30:59

Like, this is and he was a technologist. You know, he was in the software industry. He was building houses, and he was like, I can't believe there's nothing to help me manage this incredibly complicated process. I'm dealing with all these subs, and I'm trying to manage a schedule. It's, you know, it's it's funny.

Wyatt Jenkins: 31:15

He just was solving his own problem, which by the way, it was like my startup, my Beatport startup. I was a DJ, and I was just like, okay. I don't wanna use these records anymore when I'm flying all over the world. I wanna try to use these MP threes. Like, how can I solve this problem?

Brett Dahmer: 31:27

Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 31:27

You know? And that's that's always a when peep when you have a founder who's passionate about solving their own problem, I think that's, like, a really good thing. I I I always tell companies to try to hold on to that.

Brett Dahmer: 31:38

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, that we've we've heard that a lot is, understanding the problem you're trying to solve and and how much pain is associated with it, how much passion you have to to alleviate that pain. So I I think that's a really interesting, perspective on that. But

Wyatt Jenkins: 31:56

When you think about changing PCI, like, what are the, you know, what are the things that that keep you up at night and how do you wanna, you know, work work through this?

Brett Dahmer: 32:08

Yeah. We this will be, an interesting challenge for us for sure. We've, we haven't done probably anything this substantial in a in a very long time as far as changing of technology, and, probably the last large thing we did to this scale was an ERP upgrade in 2012. At the time, we were, gosh, a 4th this size. So it was a little easier to get your head around.

Brett Dahmer: 32:32

Even then though, our strategy was like, okay. We're gonna put people on planes. They're gonna come to your office. They're gonna sit beside you. They're gonna train you.

Brett Dahmer: 32:39

Yeah. It was just different. And, you know, now we're looking at a much different rollout experience. I think, you know, from a practical side, the I think the app based technology is gonna make it actually much easier for our foreman and field craft to get their head around it. I think it's gonna be pretty intuitive for for those folks.

Brett Dahmer: 32:59

I think the PEs and PMs that are really building our jobs and and managing the work is probably where our our largest challenges, I would guess, just kind of reprocessing things and and redesigning some processes. So I think we have some work to do there, but generally speaking, you know, that was another thing that we really liked about Procore was, not only do they have the technology, they have that mobile app, they have the stuff, but they have a pretty deep bench of resources to help with adult learning, to help with change management. And quite honestly, we see those items maybe just as valuable, if not more valuable, than the actual technology itself. Again, if we have to figure out the best way to use someone else's product, that's not a very systematic approach to it. And we've been stuck there for a long time quite honestly.

Brett Dahmer: 33:54

We've we've been kinda going it alone, and we have plenty of bright people in our businesses that that do a great job of figuring it out. It's just not effective, and it's certainly not efficient to figure it out in this one business and then wait for it to, you know, trickle across the country and Yeah. And it, you know, affected essentially 33 different metro areas at this point. So, yeah, I mean, we have a1000 Actually, we have more than that. We have about 1200, salaried staff and somewhere between 8,9,000 field craft.

Brett Dahmer: 34:27

So, it is a it is a big undertaking for us, and it will be something that, again, is gonna test our mettle a little bit. I kinda mentioned it earlier, but this is also one of those things that it's not gonna be an option, where we are kind of saying, hey. This is going to be our standard. We we are all in. This isn't a, hey.

Brett Dahmer: 34:47

If you like it, let me know.

Wyatt Jenkins: 34:48

Yep.

Brett Dahmer: 34:50

And that is a little different. It it is a little different, but our leaders have have stepped up and said, hey. This may be there may be some pain along the way. There will be some pain along the way, and there will be some confusion. There will be some chaos.

Brett Dahmer: 35:03

Some things will slip through the cracks, but we believe that this is worth the sacrifice, to get the organization where we can move faster even if we need to move a little slower, you know, for this transitionary period.

Wyatt Jenkins: 35:17

So it's so exciting, though.

Brett Dahmer: 35:19

It is. There's a ton of opportunity.

Wyatt Jenkins: 35:20

That's so exciting. I mean, I work with a lot of our our customers and, some of the some of the, some of the best, you know, are they are launching into standardizing on a few technology choices and standardizing on operating procedures and SOPs and standardizing how data gets input. Because, you know, all the fancy AI and analytics in the world is only as good as the data coming into the system. And so some of the best of the best in our industry are deciding to centralize how data gets inputted into technology systems. And that is a that's a big move, and it can be frustrating.

Wyatt Jenkins: 36:04

So if you're all the way out in the field and you're like, oh, you know, but but at the end of the day, if you standardize those inputs that matter to your business, you can you can look at historicals. You can leverage AI. There's just so much you can do if you clean up that data input source. And so, you know, there was a proliferation of products at a lot of companies over the last 20 years, and what I'm seeing is a consolidation right now.

Brett Dahmer: 36:33

Yep.

Wyatt Jenkins: 36:34

Because if everybody has their favorite three little SaaS products all over your company, it's a mess. Yep. It's a mess. And and I've I'm seeing what happens 5 years after our customers make some of those decisions. When they make decisions to have a bunch of tech going a bunch of different ways, and they're like, oh, and and we show them what we can do with data.

Wyatt Jenkins: 36:57

And they're like and they kinda get sad because they know, like, oh, I got, like, 40 data sources to deal with and the day it's not clean. And I I think we can make everybody's job jobs a lot easier by following some guidelines on how on how stuff gets into your technology.

Brett Dahmer: 37:15

Yeah. A 100% agree. And I think you're talking about an industry level. I think we see the same advantage just internally in our organization, and one of the things that's really brought this to light is we're, with the CHIPS Act and a lot of other things right now, there's some incredibly large campuses and construction projects going to the scale we've never seen before. Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 37:34

And so we've, we've taken this joint venture approach where we're harnessing the power of several of our businesses to go tackle a single project that may be outside of any one person's major metro area, if you will. So, but what that looks like is you have a culture from Seattle, you have a culture from Houston, you have a culture from Memphis, and you have these people all converging on the same project. And while we've certainly gotten through it, we've done a great job, our teams have done a great job, we've we've been very profitable. There's this learning curve of, like, well, yeah, this person's titled this, but his experience in this branch was a little different because they do it this way. Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 38:12

You know, this group does it that way, and, well, no. We're not gonna do that. We're gonna do this instead. And, again, it's just an opportunity to improve and and to grow ourselves and to kinda have a more standard approach. And I think too, I think Procore has made a really smart move with, partnering with a lot of construction management and a and e programs in the university system.

Brett Dahmer: 38:35

You know? I mean, Procore is a common language now that's taught in those programs by default. So I think the learning curve for the next generation to best use the product and to already know best practices is, hey. It's really the same play that Google's put into Chromebooks in every elementary school really across the country at this point. So one of the things we're I feel like we're we're really, looking forward to, and to give this a little bit of context, Procore did largely start as a general contractor tool.

Brett Dahmer: 39:07

Right? I mean, that's pretty fair to say. Probably, what, 5, 6 years ago, started more in for servicing the specialty contractor environment and and that workforce. And so now, you guys have pretty strong representation from owners and developers, the general contractor community, and certainly now the specialty contractor community. So, some of the things we're really excited about is we are usually the passive users of Procore currently, because probably I'm gonna I don't know if this is exactly right.

Brett Dahmer: 39:41

Somewhere around 70% of our best customers use Procore already. So I think when we started this journey, over half of our people already have a Procore account because we're using the passive side of the general contractors tool, essentially. So for us, there's a lot of inefficiency in that. Our systems are kind of all worked offline. We do all our homework, all our math, all our presentation, and then there's an email.

Brett Dahmer: 40:07

There's an upload. There's a download. There's a save. There's a follow-up. There's a track it, and none of it's connected Mhmm.

Brett Dahmer: 40:13

For us. Right? So for us, one of the things we were most excited about was really to learn about kind of this newer collaborative approach to drawings management, RFI collaboration, where our people will be able to directly interact with the general contractors. I know there's some security and some other things that kind of protect both parties, but generally speaking, it eliminates a lot of this back and forth that we see. And for us, I mean, we employ, again, I'm gonna guess, probably around 300 PEs and PMs that are just doing that all day long every day.

Brett Dahmer: 40:50

Collaborating, following up, transacting in some way with a general contractor or, or with our field partners, obviously. So we think this is a huge win for us. We're actually pretty excited about that. Even when we did the pilot, these things were still in beta or they weren't even maybe quite to beta stage for some of these improvements and enhancements. And as we kinda did a final survey, we're like, hey.

Brett Dahmer: 41:14

Basically, thumbs up, thumbs down on this. Like, should we move forward? What would you guys want us to do? And we we kept getting, like, this, like, hey. We're this is a this is a good product.

Brett Dahmer: 41:24

This is a good product. But if this happens, we're all in. Yeah. And so it was really awesome to see that really kinda coincide with kind of this merge of our 2 companies to be able to really leverage and and be a part of, giving some much better functionality to our people. And, hopefully, like he's mentioned, just just make their jobs a little more efficient so they can focus on things that add more value Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 41:52

And different value. So Yeah. Let me talk to you about

Wyatt Jenkins: 41:55

this a little. It's it's a passion area of mine. I'll get a little nerdy. Procore has been built like a lot of SaaS technology products with a single account. And the permissions and the the way it operates works for the single account, the buyer of the product.

Wyatt Jenkins: 42:14

And when I joined Procore in 2020, and I had my first dinner with TUI, I was like, gosh. You know, the job site is a lot more like a network than a single account. Like, you know, the way Facebook and LinkedIn and these, like, network products, they they work like a number of nodes that I'll have to CSS a set of things. And I was like, that's really the architecture I feel like is the right one for construction. I realized we've built a SaaS business on an account level.

Wyatt Jenkins: 42:46

But when I go out on the job site, that's not how it works.

Brett Dahmer: 42:48

Yeah. Not how work gets done. It's not

Wyatt Jenkins: 42:50

how work gets done. There's a bunch of people here that work at different companies, and they all have to access a single set of technology to figure out what their part of what their role is what they need to get done, and to cover each other's asses. That's part of the business, you know, and and that was that was the change I wanted to make at Procore. Tui and team had already been talking about it for years, but this has been a huge effort the last few years. So you're gonna see a bunch of functionality roll out the next 12 months in this vein, but we've been working on it for a few years.

Wyatt Jenkins: 43:27

And the thing we've been doing for a few years is rearchitecting Procore to act more like a network than a traditional SaaS product. And so we call it connectability. And, basically, it's just a networked way to share information to all of the people on the project. And that includes all of the specialty contractors, all the owner. Everyone who's on that job needs to have a a way to access the the information for the job.

Wyatt Jenkins: 43:54

And so in a permissions based way, because not everybody can have access to everything. People need access to what they need access to, and they need data retention to be able to maintain access to data if relationships are severed because they do get severed at times on job sites. And so it's a hard architectural problem. A lot more work under the hood has been going on for the last few years than above the waterline where you see in the product. But now the above the waterline stuff's all coming out in the next few months.

Wyatt Jenkins: 44:25

And so I'm really excited. Connectability on drawings went into what we call open beta, last week. Oh, nice. And open beta means it can scale to all our customers. Procore today serves 17,000 customers.

Wyatt Jenkins: 44:38

And so we are that product is now available to all 17,000. And then next will be RFI's and then submittals. And so we're kind of drawings RFI's and submittals will be this connectable object where anyone on the job site will have access to it, in their own Procore account. And so the pain that your teams feel today is you gotta log out, go log in to the GC's account, download some drawings on your desktop, go back, log in to either your own technology or then soon it would be Procore. We would create the same problem.

Wyatt Jenkins: 45:11

But now with connectability, what happens is the drawing is synced directly into your account for you where you can retain it. And so for every job, all those drawings will be auto synced, and you won't have any of that double data moving stuff around problems.

Brett Dahmer: 45:27

Yeah. And it seems obvious. Right? And I know that there's a ton of work that goes into making the obvious a reality, but back to your point of how the job sites work, I mean, we're on these mega campuses now and you go see the general contractor's place where they have the the weekly job site meeting or twice weekly, whatever it is now, and these are huge spaces. I mean, there's 60 80 trade contractors in there all hearing the same message from the general contractor trying to figure out how to connect.

Brett Dahmer: 45:54

So, yeah, generally speaking, I 100% agree. It is it is a network of people and that all have some sort of interconnectability, some more than others. Yep. But important nonetheless in in the total of the process. So

Wyatt Jenkins: 46:07

Your data's fantastic. So when we looked at the pilot, I was like, holy moly. PCI is on something like 12,000 projects that have a Procore customer involved. And so your specific use case pushed our our architecture. I actually had to, like you know, when we first met and I started thinking through the problem, I had to go back to the engineers and go, hey, team.

Wyatt Jenkins: 46:30

I think you need to take a look look at this customer.

Brett Dahmer: 46:33

Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 46:34

You know, we were still a ways from signing luckily. Part part of the I think I think it's a little lucky that it took us a while because I don't I think if you if you would join 2 years ago, you you'd been very, very ahead of of us from an architectural perspective. And so joining now, I'm feeling really good about it. I have, like, a clear line of sight to solving most of the problems. And so I'm I'm feeling pretty good, but it did I did have to take a step back when we first met and go, oh, hold on a sec.

Wyatt Jenkins: 47:01

How's this gonna work?

Brett Dahmer: 47:02

I remember when that first came up, our sales guy, Adam, we told him last year, we did 13,767 jobs. And I only know that because I had to speak at a general foreman conference yesterday, but, yeah, it's a huge amount of volume of of projects, of transactions, of people, and, yeah, a lot of data that comes through. And we believe it's really valuable. We we just haven't always been able to quite put the pieces together as much as we'd like. But, again, back to the Procore product, one of the things we really appreciated was really this built in data framework for dashboards reporting, a lot of those things.

Brett Dahmer: 47:41

And I know a lot of that is built into kind of the back end of what our journey will be with Procore, largely around financials. You know, we're still trying to figure that out and figure out what that looks like for us. But, there's a ton of reporting and a lot of value there that that right now we maybe don't have the best insights into. We do have parts and pieces. We have some really strong labor management tools, but some of the other things are not as interconnected as they could be.

Brett Dahmer: 48:10

So pretty excited about that, and I think it's just gonna be really powerful to give people an app on their phone and say, here it is, and and not, hey. Here's the 6 things you're gonna need today to run your work. I think there is a a day in the future where this app's gonna be really powerful, and it's gonna do a large majority of of what we wanna do, and we're not gonna get there day 1. I think that's an important thing. Just like you you said early in our conversation today is, hey.

Brett Dahmer: 48:37

This is a journey. There's gonna be parts and pieces that come on day 1, and then there's gonna be other things that change over time. And that'll be our journey, and at the same time, you guys are gonna be changing things, over time as well. So I wanted to, if I guess you're willing to go there, I was able to participate in the customer advisory board for the first time, few months back now. Mhmm.

Brett Dahmer: 49:01

Really great experience overall, very impressive group of people, and, certainly humbled honestly to be there and to get as much time and exposure to just some really bright people on your team and and certainly in the industry. But, Procore was pretty open with with their vision as to what you're gonna be focusing on the next 3 years. But beyond that, what generally you feel like you're seeing in the industry?

Wyatt Jenkins: 49:27

Yeah. That's a 2 parter. Why don't I start with, you know, what the what some of the road map looks like in in broad strokes. When we talk about the road map, I do wanna help everyone understand Procore is a public company. We have 1400 ish, engineers, product people, and designers in r and d.

Wyatt Jenkins: 49:50

I think if I remember right, we you can look it up, but we spent, 24% of revenue on r and d, which is very high. Most SaaS benchmarks are around 20%. The reason we're high and we would defend it to our investors is because we believe the world of construction has a long way to go. There's a lot of innovation in our industry that's gonna help us do our jobs better. And so we invest heavily in r and d to and and believe in that investment.

Wyatt Jenkins: 50:17

Typically, on the street, for public companies, software as a service spends 20% or or 20 to 15 to 20% on r and d versus sales and marketing and versus operations and and so on. So sorry. So we are a SaaS company, but we are a thing called vertical SaaS, which is its own category. And what that means is we are SaaS technology, software as a service technology that serves 1 industry, construction.

Brett Dahmer: 50:44

Yep.

Wyatt Jenkins: 50:44

And there's a few others out there like Veeva, for example, serves one industry, life sciences, pharma, and that they only build software for that industry. So you can sort of look at that class of customer, and and they're a little different than other SaaS companies.

Brett Dahmer: 50:57

Not broad based.

Wyatt Jenkins: 50:58

Yeah. Exactly. So, that's a little bit about the structure of Procore. And so in my organization, myself and the president, Steve Davis, we have about 1400 product engineers, product managers, and designers who are building software. And so our product changes a lot.

Wyatt Jenkins: 51:20

We we listen to customers and you see improvement. You see things move. You see things change. It's very organic. Software is, it's like construction in certain ways in that we're building something, and there's there's a lot of coordination that needs to happen, and we're trying to hit dates.

Wyatt Jenkins: 51:37

But it's the one thing I always I always try to help customers understand about software development is that, there's a couple fundamental differences. One of them is my foundation is changing every week. So in construction, you, you know, you lay a foundation and there's, like, that's

Brett Dahmer: 51:56

it's a

Wyatt Jenkins: 51:56

it's a thing, and now this happens next, and then this happens next. And so when you're building a project, you can you can predict pretty well, you know, how it's gonna go. There's hiccups, but, like, you can in software, I'm changing everything all the time. And so in the foundation of the product, I'm changing the data model. I'm adding new security patches.

Wyatt Jenkins: 52:15

I'm and so when I say something takes 6 months, well, that's based on the current system. Yeah. That system is going to change every week. And so it's just an interesting world to work in. It's incredibly fluid.

Wyatt Jenkins: 52:29

Earlier, you talked about taking a leap as a company. That's just software. I always am taking the leap because I don't have a solid foundation that's that's stay staying the same. I have a foundation that's moving. And so it's always, like, a bit of a guessing game to, like, try to predict way out in the future.

Wyatt Jenkins: 52:50

So little inside baseball, I guess. Let's talk about the future of Procore's product. There's a few critical investment areas for us. One of which is data and AI. That is a major investment.

Wyatt Jenkins: 53:07

Procore, over the last 4 years, has built a single data platform. So we have over 40 tools, experiences, things like estimating or r fives or smiddles or drawings. Those are all tools

Brett Dahmer: 53:20

Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 53:20

That sit in the Procore platform. But all of it sits on a single data platform, and we've built that data platform out really well over the last 4 years. And what what that means is I can connect data from any of those sources. In other words, I could join data from financials to our labor products so that you could see labor productivity rates back to our estimating products so you could use those labor productivity rates to make a better estimate for your next job. All that sits in a single data platform now on Procore, and it's so powerful.

Wyatt Jenkins: 53:53

That's also how we power AI. So, you know, large language models have changed the world for all of us in the last 12 months.

Brett Dahmer: 54:01

Yeah. Without a doubt.

Wyatt Jenkins: 54:01

I'm guessing nobody is is immune to this. We all see it even just in our Google searches when you see the generative AI there. And large language models are gonna change construction too, and, they're gonna change it. And and because we've built this data platform, I can do amazing things with large language models. So, I'll give you a couple cool examples.

Wyatt Jenkins: 54:25

One thing we're doing right now with Procore Copilot, Procore Copilot is our version of generative AI that you will see come alive in the product over the next year. And it's already in pilot and beta and parts of the product, so you'll start to see it moved GA for broader use cases. But when you type a query into the Procore search bar, before you were doing, like, single two word queries like you would sort of a Google search. Now with large language models, you can type natural language questions and get natural answers. And what large language models are great at is looking at large sets of documentation, and that's what we have in construction.

Wyatt Jenkins: 55:06

When you have a project, you have specs, and you have submittals, and you have hundreds and hundreds of documents. And so one of the coolest things that we can immediately do with large language models is we can you can ask Procore a question in a very natural way in a sentence, in a very conversational way. Hey. Can you give me a summary of all the RFIs in this area for the last 2 weeks? And Procore will just answer that question and go look throughout the platform, find all the RFIs, and then actually write a thoughtful summary of the types of changes that have happened in that area of construction over the last few weeks.

Brett Dahmer: 55:41

Yeah. Very cool.

Wyatt Jenkins: 55:42

You know? And that stuff is so powerful. The other thing we're doing with with another good example, you know, we can we can have these little nudges that pop out based on activities. So for example, if you have a question about a specific area, of the project around, you know, what you need to do, maybe you're hanging drywall or something, and you need to figure out, like, you know, if if the stuff behind the drywall is actually finished or not, you could just ask pro Procore a question about the preceding parts of the schedule and get a natural language answer that says, like, oh, yeah. This and this and this is completed, but this isn't.

Wyatt Jenkins: 56:22

You might wanna check on it. Like, these are the things you can just ask Procore here in the future that wasn't possible even a year ago. And I think we're very, very early in this large language model journey, and I don't know how it's all gonna turn out. It's kinda wild. All I can tell you is that a lot like chips, you know, chips used to be something that took a long time, and chips have become so powerful that now we can just store massive amounts of data, and we didn't really know what's possible.

Wyatt Jenkins: 56:51

Same thing with large language models. When I ran a search engine at Shutterstock 10 years ago, I used to take 60 engineers, and I used to index all the images to do those clever personalization algorithms. I can do that with, like, one engineer in an afternoon now. And so I can't tell you exactly how that what that means yet. All I can tell you is this thing that took me 60 engineers in 6 months takes me 1 engineer in an afternoon, which is gonna open up a lot of possibilities.

Brett Dahmer: 57:21

Yeah. Yeah. It's clearly very powerful, and we've, just started scratching the surface, I think. It was interesting. We had a speaker come and talk to our group at, strategic planning and really bright guy, and he actually equated what's going on in AI right now to capturing electricity, being able to transfer electricity.

Brett Dahmer: 57:41

And he said the interesting thing about when that happened is there was actually a vacuum of idea generation and other invention after the light bulb, and they called it the Edison effect. I don't know if that's actually a technical thing, but he said everyone was so focused on, like, it can't get better than this. Like, we have light in our house after sunset. Right? Like and and, he said that it was funny that the the level of innovation actually dropped for a period of time because everyone was so fixated on just that one thing.

Brett Dahmer: 58:09

And And then you obviously see this explosion and how electricity, I mean, has I can't even imagine our world without it, obviously. We wouldn't be sitting here. Right? So so one of the things you said, and I wanna circle back to that because I it made me kinda reflect back on my first experiences with Procore was, hey. This is a lot of change for our people.

Brett Dahmer: 58:28

Right? And, some people are very progressive and comfortable with change and others less so. But generally speaking, construction is a pretty conservative group of folks, and consistency is valued and process is valued. You said, like, hey. Your foundation's changing every week.

Brett Dahmer: 58:44

How does that show up for the customer? Right? Because, I think that can be a little bit like, say what? You're changing every week? Like, no.

Brett Dahmer: 58:51

We're not. Yeah. But, you know, I I think of my first interaction with that, for us, change is very challenging from from this office, I guess, I would say. And the fact that you have to have a communication strategy, you have to have a plan, you have to have a training plan, you you know, the timing of it's gotta be. We spent a lot of time with this this rollout process of change, and sometimes it's not even major change.

Brett Dahmer: 59:14

It's it's an update. It's a it's a tweak, but it's very cumbersome. And I'll never forget when I we were in the middle of this pilot, and I wasn't the most technical user. I'll own that. But generally speaking, I was pretty in step, with Ryan, who was doing all the work.

Brett Dahmer: 59:31

And and I popped the app open one day, and it says, hey. Here's what's changed. Mhmm. And it walked me through the 3 or 4 updates and changes, and I was like, okay. This is I'm actually very comfortable with this.

Brett Dahmer: 59:47

And, so talk about that, I guess, a little bit. What how how does the user, the customer experience kind of this constant change that's going around us when when it's packaged under the Procore Yeah. Umbrella?

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:00:01

Yeah. First thing I wanna make you feel good about everybody at PCI is Procore serves some of the largest companies in the world. I'm not gonna name customers, but, for example, I think we do more data centers than anyone else in by, like, 4 x. I think last year, we had 32100 data centers built on Procore. So if you just figure out, okay, who are the customers who are building data centers?

Brett Dahmer: 01:00:31

Those those are

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:00:32

know them. You know, you're a part you're on PCI is on a bunch of those jobs. And so when we change the system, we are making a change for very, very large companies. And those companies might have 5000, 10000, 50,000 employees who are using Procore. And so we have to be really thoughtful about change management.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:00:56

We have to give notice, we upfront before we make change. We need to arm our account team for helping people work through it. We need to make usually, most larger customers have a a person or persons who just work on Procore, and we arm them ahead of the change. So if there's something that's gonna be be material for them that they can train and and work through it. And so, and then we have different classes of changes.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:01:25

So I I say above the waterline, below the waterline. Above the waterline is what customers experience. Below the waterline is us changing architecture. We do something like 600 changes below the waterline a month. If you can believe that, It's a lot of movement so that we can have a more methodical approach to what's above the the waterline and roll out really thoughtful releases that are meaningful and that are digestible by our customers.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:01:57

So we put a lot of thought into, how we release you know, we're we're an enterprise product, and we have enterprise large customers. And if if we change in an erratic way, I'll tell you what, my phone lights up because a bunch of those customers have my cell phone. So so I have experienced releasing a change that was not, people weren't excited about.

Brett Dahmer: 01:02:21

Yeah. I can only imagine. Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:02:23

And, like, you know, the the pager goes off in a at the middle of the night, and I have to go deal with it. I've also even experienced releasing change that the customer wanted, but they still weren't trained up on yet. And so even when they when it's something the customer is excited about, if they don't have time to get in front of it with, like, enablement for the field and enablement for all the folks, then it causes a real problem. So, yeah, my promise to you and and and everybody here is is, you know, we'll be methodical and thoughtful about about that, and we have to for for our customers.

Brett Dahmer: 01:02:54

No. It it was really impressive to me quite honestly because I I would say this is an opportunity for us even as we do things currently. We're always trying to figure out a better communication strategy, a better communication plan, an implementation plan. When we when we do surveys with our folks, you just measure, hey. Generally, how are we doing on these fronts?

Brett Dahmer: 01:03:14

Those are areas where we have the most opportunity for improvement and to think of losing control over that. Because right now, we it's all on us. It's our fault if it's if it's bad. And when it goes great, it's it's ours to gain. Right?

Brett Dahmer: 01:03:28

And, to give that away to someone else largely is is a little bit of a It'll be a part of your control. No. No. Yeah. Absolutely.

Brett Dahmer: 01:03:37

Absolutely. But it's, that was really it yeah. I when I saw that, I mean, I I really do remember it, like, clear as day. I mean, no different than your banking app or anything else. Right?

Brett Dahmer: 01:03:48

Very high level, very professional. Like, here's what changed. Here's what was in your update. And you're like, oh, that's how that should look.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:03:54

Alright. Perfect. You know? Alright. Good.

Brett Dahmer: 01:03:56

And, so, yeah, good stuff there.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:03:58

One one other area of the road map that I I really wanna talk to you about because I think it's it's important is, we're making major investments in resource management. When I say resource management today, we do labor, labor scheduling, labor tracking, time cards. We do that part really, really well, and we're always improving it. But now in the road map, in the future, we're getting into equipment, which is coming out later in the year and then materials. And so Procore is going from l to l e and m tracking, and we're tying all of it back to the financials.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:04:34

Sure. We're tying all of it back to schedule. We're making a big, big investment in schedule, inside of our core product so that, you know, you're you're gonna be able to see how labor equipment and materials affect the budget, affect the schedule, inside of pro Procore in a very methodical way. You know, can't one of the this I'll steal a quote from one of our our customers, but we really wanna turn our customers into predictors of problems instead of firefighters. You know, we wanna give you upfront what we think could be a problem from a labor equipment material scheduling impact, not like, oh, by the way, there is a problem.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:05:18

And then you're firefighting. Right? And I think that's that's a big that's why we're making that product investment into equipment and materials. So expect to see equipment, go into beta this year, and then materials to to potentially come in come online next year really. And so and it'll all be a single user interface.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:05:39

So you can sort of see the labor, see the equipment, see the materials in a similar views, that feel consistent and let you kind of understand how all that's being managed.

Brett Dahmer: 01:05:50

Yeah. And so for us, this is, again, one of those things that's come full circle because when we started in the pilot, that was specifically not really very visible and maybe not even there at all. And, at PCG, that's one of the things, gosh, over the past 20 years we've invested quite a bit in is is having some pretty tight job controls and visibility pretty much in real time for, all those cost categories that are really important to deliver our product. And, so yeah. Again, it's good to see, and it just kinda, again, parallels where the tools that we feel are really necessary for our business.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:06:28

Let's talk about some of the issues in the industry that we're hearing. The number one issue far and above is is labor shortages, just to be very honest. And it seems like something, by the way, that your company does better than almost any company I've ever seen. So congrats on that. Thanks.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:06:46

I mean, I'm I'm so impressed with with how you've scaled. But industry wide, it's it's the first thing out of the lips of almost any anyone I talk to is labor shortages. And it's not just craft. It's also just folks that work Yep. In in, you know, at the home office.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:07:04

It's across the board. A stat that I'll throw out there over the next decade, This is one of my favorites. The or there's an organic growth rate of how many people are coming into the industry. Per year, we're gonna need 546,000 more people than the current organic growth rate per year Wow. To meet the demand.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:07:29

So just let that number sit sink in for a little bit. We're about half a 1000000 short per year. And so that and then, of course, the next year is compounding. Right? So you you sort of think about those numbers to fill the roles needed for the demand.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:07:43

And so, hey, we're all in the right industry. I mean, if anything, tech is actually going through, it's like

Brett Dahmer: 01:07:50

Yeah. A little bit of a downturn. A little bit

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:07:52

of a, you know, oh, hey. We used to have a significant supply demand in equity in technology for engineers with the the demand for engineers was, like, 10 x higher than the supply. Now things are leveling out a bit in tech. And in the in the built world, it's it's gonna get a lot worse. The labor shortages are gonna be, a big deal, which is why we're investing so much in labor scheduling and and why we invest in our dot org and why we could try to get on campuses and why we try to help with training.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:08:21

And Procore does a lot more than technology in this space. You know, we've got a big.org team that is getting out there in the schools and and actually trying to help people consider the crafts as a career because it's a good it's a good path, and it's a good paying path. And it's it's not I think as we look forward to the future, it's funny because a lot of the knowledge worker businesses, thanks to LLMs, are more threatened than the than than the businesses where you you're outside and you're you have a you have a skill, you know, with your hands.

Brett Dahmer: 01:08:52

Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:08:52

And so labor shortage is number 1, in the industry by far. The other thing that's a huge trend we're seeing, especially in North America, I would say we're behind Europe on this, is the move to design build. It's it's just happening a lot more. I speak to a lot of owners about it. And, you know, when when owners once once they see it and they feel it, it's hard to put the toothpaste back in the bottle.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:09:23

You know, when you have a an architect and a craftsperson and a builder, a GC in the room, and and you solve a couple problems together and you save 1,000,000 of dollars and change orders down the line, it's hard for owners to go back. And so I feel like we're at this moment, right, where you're gonna see a lot more owners once they experience it, just wanna wanna do that. And in some parts of the world like the UK, they're almost, like, 80% design build or Saudi or something like that. And that's why I say in the North America, we we we hung on to design bid build a lot longer. I think we're more litigious in America.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:10:02

I think there's, like, a lot of cultural reasons, right, why we why why it's been that way. And but I think the trend is there.

Brett Dahmer: 01:10:09

Yeah. We're we've definitely seen a similar trend. Percentage wise. I I don't know if we really track that very well, but some of certainly our larger projects, we have a part a, part b component where you're a design partner up front, and then we'll talk about contracting afterwards. And, certainly becoming more and more popular, and we've tried to navigate our own where we wanna be in that space, managing kinda hey.

Brett Dahmer: 01:10:36

We've we've always been hesitant to be stamping our own drawings for sure, but, there's a lot of room to play between, you know, being a partner, helping with that design, and actually, you know, putting an an engineered stamp out there. So

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:10:49

Well, and, you know, in the GC space, I see more and more GCs. They hire in an architecture firm. I was just with one of our big GCs in the day. They have 35 architects now on staff. That GC is self performing concrete.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:11:04

And so because they're self performing concrete, they care about the margin on that, and that pushes them upstream to go hire their own architects. The other thing I see a lot is instead of architects, I see a lot of GCs just have a massive VDC team that is effectively taking drawings that they don't think are constructible and give them to the VDC team. And the VDC team makes them constructible because that's a bunch of builders there. And so, yeah, I see a lot of companies trying different ways to create what I think is of, innate in design build. In design build, you're just getting everybody at the table to make sure I've been in I've been in a room where someone is like, hey.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:11:43

You know, if you move that pillar over 6 feet, I can drive a truck right in there and load the steel off it, and then you don't need that crane. But, like, you're not gonna get that between an owner and architect. They're not gonna think about that. And you just save somebody $1,500,000 on a project just because you had a a craftsperson or a builder in the room to to make a few nudges left and right. You know?

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:12:05

And once you see that stuff, it's just hard

Brett Dahmer: 01:12:06

to unsee. That idea of continuous improvement there as well. I mean, again, lesson learned here becomes standard issue for the next one, and and they keep keep building on it until it gets more efficient. And, yeah, we certainly continue to experience that trend as well and a changing dynamic for sure.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:12:26

Yeah. And so when I think about the industry, labor shortages, we also seeing a big move, you know, with with the act from from the president, it to civil infrastructure. Right? We're seeing a lot of backlogs fill up in civil infrastructure. So that's an interesting shift I've seen in the industry.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:12:46

Lot more companies move in that direction. Back to AI, we're seeing data center explosion. Data centers are filling up everybody's backlog. Probably yours as well, I would

Brett Dahmer: 01:13:54

assume. Yeah. Yeah. We shifted, hey, 5 years ago. Some of our largest building types were related to health care, hospitals.

Brett Dahmer: 01:14:02

Those were were very large projects for us, predominantly West Coast. And now we've seen really a a shift from the West Coast, to more of the central part of the country or or central and east even, huge growth in data centers. EV plants, battery facilities, renewable related energy type projects. So certainly a shift without a doubt in in the buildings that we're building that are supplying industry differently Yeah. Than what it used to be in the future.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:14:34

We can probably look at that NVIDIA stock and just, like, watch the trend of

Brett Dahmer: 01:14:38

Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:14:38

Data center growth in everybody's backlog. For those that don't know, NVIDIA is the company that makes, you know, a lot of the data storage for all this large language model AI stuff. Right? And so I what I heard is they're starting to buy 3, 4 years out on on their data center builds. They have to to support this, like, explosion of data that we're all gonna have.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:15:00

And so, yeah,

Brett Dahmer: 01:15:01

I don't. The data center stuff's out of control. I don't even understand how big it's gonna be. Hey. It's a good thing for us.

Brett Dahmer: 01:15:09

We've, we've been able to capitalize on it, and and our people build data center as well. We know we know how to partner and do that well. So, it's actually been really exciting, and they're they're not the prettiest of buildings, though. They're not not something you want on the front brochure, but, they're sure nice to have in the backlog.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:15:26

I was just on a data center a month ago. You're right. It was just like they had, like, 8 of them lined up

Brett Dahmer: 01:15:32

Oh, yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:15:32

You know, along the side of a highway in the middle of nowhere. Flat gray monsters. Yep. 150,000 square feet each and yeah. And they're printing them.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:15:45

I mean, it's it's the the efficiency I'm seeing in those is wild.

Brett Dahmer: 01:15:50

Yeah. Huge amounts of land. You know, our experiences, once we've been able to get on-site, you better plan on being there a while because they're just as soon as soon as one suite's done, the next one's going, and, there's not really an end inside or really a plan to to slow it at all. So and, it's been crazy to see that kind of growth and really change. Again, projects used to just be a project.

Brett Dahmer: 01:16:14

Like, you bid a project. You were successful. You built it. You're done. And now we kinda see this more strategic, like, hey.

Brett Dahmer: 01:16:21

We need to we need to get in early to this market, to this customer, this opportunity, this campus, whatever that is, because we know that's gonna be a much longer road than what it was in the past. So

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:16:33

you know, I I'd be remiss not to mention our new partnership with Microsoft, which is really exciting. We wanna make sure Procore is where people work. And so, we're doing a partnership with Microsoft. We have our own Copilot. We chose the name Copilot because we our position is that it might it'll be like Kleenex.

Brett Dahmer: 01:16:54

Sure.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:16:54

People won't people won't say, like, large language model. They'll say, like, just say Copilot because it's like your Copilot. And so there's a Procore Copilot, but there's also a Microsoft one. And, it's pretty cool, this integration. Like, if you're in Teams, you know, you could ask Procore a a question about the project, and then the Copilot could access all the Procore documentation and bring the answer back into Teams where you're having the conversation, for example.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:17:18

Or if you're in Outlook and you're just sending an email, you could, like, pull information on a Procore into the email you're writing in Outlook. Right? So these are those types of integrations that we really wanna dig into and and, because we know we know that Microsoft is using the Office. Right? It's a it's it's a heavy use.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:17:36

And so we wanted to be where our customers are. So that's it's for the field. We wanna be on a tablet and on your phone. And and for the office, we wanna we wanna be partnering with Microsoft and making sure Procore can show up in the places that people work. So that's a big new exciting area for us.

Brett Dahmer: 01:17:54

You know, you just hit on something that actually, I think, is worthwhile mentioning. I think we've talked a lot about what Procore is, what it what it's gonna be in the future, what it aspires to be in the future. There's also some pretty specific things that you're not and not interested in being an ERP system. That's that's not, where this is headed. I think for for people that hear this, they're like, well, how how deep will this interconnectivity go?

Brett Dahmer: 01:18:23

And I actually think that's a place of power for you guys. You have essentially, OpenAI that allows you con to connect to, what, a couple hundred other industry type services and partners at this point?

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:18:34

Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about that. I've always defined at least for the next 3 to 5 years, I've defined from pre con to closeout is, like, the boundaries that we wanna play in and the platform. We're not gonna go into design authoring.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:18:49

You know, it's just not a space that we wanna go play in, and we're not gonna go into true o and m. On the other side of that, it's it's we wanna focus on the build. But then within those boundaries, we wanna solve a 100% of the problems. Now there's always gonna be some really cool point solutions. Because, you know, if you're a startup and you're 20 people and it's us against the world, you might build a really, really elegant punch list.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:19:17

You know what I mean? That's just beautiful because it's like your only thing. And or you might build a really, really elegant, safety app or and and at the end of the day, we wanna solve more problems for our customers. And so our approach is to have an open API where an API is a is an is an interface that other products can plug into and share data with Procore. And so we play really nicely with all of the other technologies in the industry, which I think helps, especially for a company like yours.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:19:52

Procore is gonna be a lot of things to you, but we're not gonna be everything.

Brett Dahmer: 01:19:56

Yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:19:56

And and for the things we're not, they can plug into our API. We can build integrations, and we can make sure that that that the data is all in one place. What I wanna be for our customers is the backbone, is that data backbone where you see, you know, all the projects, and and that's including the financials, the construction financials, of of the projects. And so,

Brett Dahmer: 01:20:20

well, I think that's an important thing because, hey, in our businesses, I mean, everyone has their their favorite gadget, right, or this new cool thing they're trying out, and we get a lot of value out of that. I mean, it really, fosters innovation and some creative thinking and keeps you from just becoming, like, hey, Everyday rinse and repeat. And I know you guys have had the same experience, but, yeah, I think that's actually a really cool way to structure the product. Like, hey. We're gonna we're gonna cover most of this territory on our own, but we do acknowledge that there are gonna be things that do add value that we're not gonna be able to get to either right now or or maybe they're just not really on our road map, period.

Brett Dahmer: 01:21:00

We think they do it really well, and we're gonna keep thinking they do it really well.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:21:04

Yeah. And for this audience, it's a lot like Apple. Right? It's like Apple has a calculator that comes on your iPhone. You know what I mean?

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:21:10

But they're not the best calculator. There's, like, all these fancy apps you could download where companies have built amazing calculators for bespoke purposes. And Apple's never gonna build that. They're gonna be the device and the core operating system and an ecosystem for those apps to play in, and that's a very similar approach to Procore. We probably will have something for most workflows.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:21:33

But is it the best thing that's ever you know, some of them are amazing that we've spent years years on, you know, like, especially in project management or core. Right? Yeah. Project management we're working on for 20 years, so most of those workflows are pretty good.

Brett Dahmer: 01:21:47

But, you know, as you

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:21:47

get further out, there's there's a lot of workflows where there's some other technology company that's just they're years ahead of us, and they've only thought about this one problem really deeply, and we just wanna partner with them. Because at any day, our job is just to solve problems for customers.

Brett Dahmer: 01:22:02

No. Without a doubt. And I think, hey. That's I think it's a really transparent thing to say. A lot of people, I think, out of pride or whatever else, you know, they wanna be everything to everybody.

Brett Dahmer: 01:22:11

And, I actually really appreciated that about the platform. It was like, yeah. Hey. We're not there in this in this space quite yet, and Yeah. But we have a really nice plug in, and and it works pretty seamlessly.

Brett Dahmer: 01:22:23

And it will still make your job better to to run it through this path.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:22:26

So If you can believe this, I I actually I get frustrated with my team sometimes, and I tell them, don't build. Don't build. I'm like, unless you think you can be a 1 or 2 in that thing you're building, like, why are you doing it in the first place? Like, be you know, let the partner do it. You know, don't.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:22:47

Our surface area is wide enough. We have a significant surface area.

Brett Dahmer: 01:22:51

So if we jump into that, that was one of the messages really at the advisory board was, hey. Really, the next 3 years, I think there was, if I heard it right, essentially kind of a a recommitment back to the core of what we do, make sure it's still where it needs to be. And if it needs if it needs a tune up, we're gonna give it a tune up, and and we may not add a bunch of new bells and whistles on on the edges of the spectrum here. We're gonna circle back and make sure the the core of what we're doing is in good shape and Yeah. And healthy and and viable.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:23:26

Yeah. It was really good for you to hear that. As a new as a new customer. The context that that group has as most of them very long, most of them are kind of 5 years or more with Procore. As we went public, we really got we got ambitious, you know, and it happens to a lot of companies.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:23:45

And so in our last product strategy between the years of 2020 and, like, 2023, we took resources off of our core product project management, and we went and, like, doubled down in financials, and we doubled down in precon. And so the experience of a lot of those customers was like, hey, project management. You know, you haven't Don't forget your bread

Brett Dahmer: 01:24:08

and butter.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:24:08

You haven't changed this much. And we didn't do it in a bubble. We actually sat with the cab and said we were gonna do it. By the way, it was that customer advisory board that was banging the table saying go fix financials for what it's worth. So it wasn't like we did it alone.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:24:23

I looked at that cab in the face. Hey. Remember, we agreed on this.

Brett Dahmer: 01:24:26

I wasn't there by myself. It wasn't

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:24:28

just me, like, making the shit up. Like, we we decided together. But, you know, when we made the decision, I think a lot of customers were like, oh, gosh. That means that the project management's not innovating as fast anymore, and it didn't. Between the years 2020 and 23, it didn't innovate as fast.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:24:45

Financials got a lot better. Financials has made huge strides in the last 3 years. You know, we have 11,000 customers on financials now of our 17,000 and some of the biggest companies in the world. So it's we've I'm so proud of that work, but it came at a strategic cost.

Brett Dahmer: 01:25:03

Cause and effect for everything.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:25:05

Cause and effect for everything. So was it the right call? I don't know even yet. It may be. But I'll I will tell you this.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:25:11

In our next 3 year strategy, the one that you're joining for, we have we our top priority is to innovate on our core product, and that's going back to basics with project management, quality, safety, those tools that got us here. So, personally, we've tripled the engineering team, tripled the size of it on those core products

Brett Dahmer: 01:25:35

Oh, wow.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:25:36

In the last 3 months. And it's very exciting because a lot of things that look like they were gonna be 18 months, 24 months away are now 3 months away because I've grown the size of the team so much, and that's you know, you're you and all the other customers that were banging the table about project management are gonna be feeling that impact over the next 18 months because we are recommitting to our core product. So, yeah, we spread our wings into financials in a few areas, and I think that was actually good. I'm really proud of where we're at with financials, but now we gotta get back to basics.

Brett Dahmer: 01:26:09

Yeah. So for the people in our camp, there's been a lot of, question and maybe we just haven't really been quite ready to communicate a full vision for, we've we've rolled out a pretty fair time frame of how we're gonna introduce some of the Procore products. I think that piece but it's like, well, what is it replacing and and in what way is it replacing it? And I was talking to our setup team for for today, earlier this morning and, you know, for performance contracting, we've again, very risk averse. We like to have a plan.

Brett Dahmer: 01:26:44

We like to have a lot of confidence in our plan. And in the past, I would say that if we didn't know what the 20th step was, we were pretty hesitant to take any step. And with Procore, I think we we struck a new balance of, hey. We need to we need to start moving in this space toward a direction. And with Procore as a partner, I think we're doing that.

Brett Dahmer: 01:27:04

And so I know people are specifically, what is going away? You know Yeah. When is that going to happen? When are you going to take this from me as far as, like, a current product or technology or process, whatever that is? And, I'm

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:27:19

fascinated here. Yeah. I'm really curious.

Brett Dahmer: 01:27:21

What what it is. We made a jump to, a partnership with with Box for a lot of our document management. Procore has similar functionality, and in some ways at a project level makes a lot of sense. For us, Box serves a lot of internal manual workflows, I guess, is what I would say, you know, things that really aren't project centric, but nonetheless important to how our businesses function and operate and all those things. So there's there's there's kind of this, you know, hey.

Brett Dahmer: 01:27:50

How how deep is this going to impact us as an organization? And I think we're still working through some of that. I don't know if that's something similar you guys have found with other customers. I Oh,

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:28:01

yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 01:28:01

But I I would say that in the past, we would have approached this. Like, that needed to be dialed up day 1, high and tight. We needed to have very clear vision. And for us, I think we actually got comfortable saying, we're gonna use Procore where Procore's really good and strong, and we're not gonna have redundant technologies. If there is an area where we're not quite ready there, we're not going to transition at the detriment of our businesses.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:28:24

Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 01:28:25

And we need to have a clear plan. We need to have a clear strategy when we're ready to cross those bridges. But, you know, I'm not sure we have clarity of what 10 years from now our footprint with Procore looks like. You know, certainly, the intention is to be certainly partnered together, but is it soup to nuts everything that that PCI does runs through Procore? I don't know.

Brett Dahmer: 01:28:47

And my guess is Procore probably doesn't have a high level of clarity on that.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:28:51

Yeah. Because, like, a lot most of our big customers use some company level document product. I mean, like, there's very few that don't. But the project level documents, Procore is really, really good at. You know?

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:29:05

You because you're talking about from markup to shop drawings and, you know, there's like when you think about all the construction documents, most com most companies over time think about Procore as the repository for those. But then at the company level, you're always gonna need your SharePoint or your Box or, you know, whatever. And but you just might slim it down and change your approach to it. And and so that's what I see over time as companies kinda grapple with that. And, but I don't think we should replace company level doc I don't think I've see even seen that much of of a replacing a company level document storage solution.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:29:42

Usually, there's still just a use case for that because a hell of a lot more documents in this company than just the project documents.

Brett Dahmer: 01:29:48

Yeah. Without a doubt. I think, and I might be all wrong. I wanna say we have around 120 terabytes of data, you know, floating around out there in the cloud, most of which is project centric. I mean, again, just like you mentioned earlier yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 01:30:01

The the spec books, the contracts, all the all those big chunks of paper that, are now PDFs. Those are all floating around out there, the models and all of that. So,

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:30:13

it will be nice to have those for the project inside of Procore so that large language models could scan through them and answer a question for you in 2 seconds that might have taken you a week to go find. You know? And I think that's that's the value. Right? That's the the cool part about a construction focused document product versus a generic document horizontal technology.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:30:39

You know, Box is never gonna have time. Box is great. I know the founder. Like, they're amazing. I have a lot of respect for them, but they're gonna have a hard time going in and creating construction specific use cases.

Brett Dahmer: 01:30:49

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? And I don't think they have any desire to. No. They wouldn't probably make any sense for their organization to

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:30:55

No. They're in a dogfight with Dropbox and everybody else.

Brett Dahmer: 01:30:57

They're just

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:30:57

a whole different trying

Brett Dahmer: 01:30:57

to stay alive. They became a commodity. So, yeah. I was thinking about it. I mean, it's a big shift

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:31:04

for your company. Like, what what did you like, what was keeping you up at night? What was what what would happen if you didn't make the shift? Because because you're sort of standardizing on a on a technology product for the for the project management. It's a big deal.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:31:20

What does the world look like if you didn't do that, I guess? Hey.

Brett Dahmer: 01:31:24

I think that's a really good question, and we've we've wrestled with this a lot, actually. One of our leaders, one of his things is, you know, hey. There is an option to do nothing. And, generally, he says that to kinda just challenge our thought process and make sure we're doing what's best for the organization and and do no harm is actually something that we fundamentally, keep core in our decision making process. But, we believe that with our size, this actually is going to become a barrier for our growth.

Brett Dahmer: 01:31:56

We we believe that we are much stronger when we're more connected, when we have, again, a standard way of doing business, not only internally, but how we show up for our customers. When we've gone and done customer engagement surveys and things like that in the past, one of the things that we we hear actually more than we would like is, hey. When I work with your team in LA, I have this experience. And when I work with your team over here, it's quite different. And, you know, how is that?

Brett Dahmer: 01:32:25

And in in some instances, people don't even realize that, some of our product offerings are scalable across different markets or available amongst different markets. So again, with 1 PCG, which was a huge initiative for our company that we put in place and I guess really started in 2021, but now through 'twenty two and 'twenty three, we're having a few years under our belt. That was a big piece of the growth we need as an organization, especially employee owned organization. We have to keep growing this business. And not because it's easy, not because it's fun, because we need to.

Brett Dahmer: 01:33:05

We need to provide a return to our shareholders. We hold that in in very high regard to perpetuate and and preserve the company and the wealth associated with the shareholders of our organization, which are our employees. So for us, it really just became a, hey. We we got to a place where doing nothing is yeah, actually isn't the right answer anymore. Yeah.

Brett Dahmer: 01:33:27

And, hey, were the the wheels falling off the train? No. We we were we're doing good. The company is in a great spot, but it does become a significant barrier in how we develop people, how we train people, how we engage with our customers when we do it in a fragmented way. So generally speaking, I think that was one of our our largest, areas of focus and what we view as an opportunity, quite honestly, to to be better in the future.

Brett Dahmer: 01:33:57

We do believe that Procore will be a better solution for us in the future. It's gonna be a journey to get all the kinks worked out. We know that. Right? We're very much realist about the process.

Brett Dahmer: 01:34:06

But at the end of the day, we think we're gonna take a 100% of the organization from really, really good to someday it will be really, really good across the board in all of our locations. So consistency there and and still having the tool that our businesses need to be successful. We think Procore answers a lot of those a lot of those questions for us.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:34:31

Our mission as a company, it comes from TUI, our founder, is to improve the lives of everyone in construction. That's our that's what we do. And so when you go out on a job site, it's not okay to just improve the lives of general contractors and construction. That is not our mission. Our mission is to make the whole project work better.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:34:52

And and so, you know, back in 2018, 2019, there was a very conscious decision if we're gonna achieve our mission. And and and, you know, we can't do everything at once. But if we're really gonna achieve our mission, we we have to make the world great for specialty contractors. And that's when we started building products for specialty contractors. That's when we started building field productivity, time cards, t and m tickets.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:35:21

You know, we acquired a company here in Kansas City, LaborChart Yep. Which is now integrated into the Procore platform. We acquired a specialty contractor focused estimating product in 2021, that's now integrated into Procore. So we've over the last since 2018, we've made a concerted effort to have a true offering for specialty contractors, change the language and the product, you know, and talk about things different and make sure that all different roles on a project feel like it was built for them, which has been a hard which has been a hard shift, but it's starting to pay off. We have other big specialty contractors like Modern Niagara, you know, big HVAC plumbing specialty contractor, Fessler and Bowman, concrete.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:36:12

So, you know, and and a lot. I think we have, 65100 of our 17,000 customers are specialty contractors, so it's not small.

Brett Dahmer: 01:36:21

Yeah. It's a piece of the population.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:36:22

Big piece of the population. And now one of the biggest though, PCI. Right? So you are in a you are a really special customer in that cohort, because of your scale, which has pushed me on things like connectability. But it's a shift for Procore.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:36:39

We're still making that shift. We're not done. Yep. But it's it's it's taking a very conscious effort. I'll give you a product example of where that shift shows up.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:36:51

In the product, we're changing the user experience to be persona based. So in the corner of the product, you'll see the the person and then you'll see the role. And so whether it's a super or a foreman or a laborer, whatever it is, you know, it it you'll see the role and then Procore will show that person the things they need. And and that's an architectural shift. You know, we have the same thing for owners.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:37:19

There's an owner login, and then that will show the owner what they need. There's the, you know, the the folks, the executives, the VP of Precon at the general contractor. There's we've identified these roles, and Procore will become very role based. So it can be the platform for the project regardless of who of who's working on it, and those are those are part of the product road map coming up soon. 1st, though, we needed products that were, like, specialty contractor focused.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:37:47

I think we've got a lot of those now. And now it's really, like, roughing sanding off the rough edges of Procore to make it feel like it's designed for you, whoever you are on the job site. And I think that's a big a big push for us on the product road map.

Brett Dahmer: 01:38:06

So clearly, I guess, as a technology firm specializing in construction, the culture at Procore has to be well suited for really constant change. You've talked about it multiple times throughout this conversation. What would you and and based on your experience of working with a lot of other contractors, what would be your advice or or what would be, your guidance to myself and our people and our organization as we're about to jump into the deep end of this pool? What would you challenge us with to to be mindful of or be open to or or whatever that looks like?

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:38:42

Yeah. I mean, Procore has our own cultural values that which align really well. We've we've found over over the years. We have the 3 o's. Ownership is a big value of ours, which means, hey.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:38:54

If you're gonna make a decision, own be accountable to that. You know, you have half skin in the game, you know, and that's that's a big part of our value. Openness is a big part of our value. When we talk about openness as a company, there's a few words that come to mind. Curiosity.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:39:13

You know, like, there's a reason something was built a certain way. We didn't just, like, make it up. We we were out in the field, and we thought it should be that way. And so you're gonna run into things in the product where it's like, oh, why is it work this way? There was a reason.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:39:28

And a lot of times, it was a good decision 10 years ago. Yeah. The decision was made, and it's not a good decision today, you know, and sometimes time affects those things. But I think, you know, maybe my ask would be as as we work together on this, you know, be open, be curious, you know. Those are things that that would be really helpful.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:39:50

We'll be the same way. Right? You'll have prokorian will come onto your job sites. You'll see them, and they'll be curious about how we can make improve the product and make it better and, you know, share that. That's that's something I think that'll make this go a long way.

Brett Dahmer: 01:40:07

Yeah. Hey. I I would echo that. I think, change is inevitable. It's happening all around us, right?

Brett Dahmer: 01:40:14

Whether that's in our professional lives, construction, personal lives, there's change all around us in the world. And I think that, what I'm excited about is I think we have an opportunity to partner with someone who actually has the resources to help us shape the change we want instead of just be frustrated that we feel like we maybe don't have a voice in the change or that we're just affected by other people's change. I really liked the, advisory board experience that I was able to participate in and and to just share some thoughts of what some of the people at PCG, the early adopters of Procore, had feedback on, what they liked, what they maybe thought could be different, and and just found that that was a more productive way than just, you know, just being frustrated with, like, well, why do people do it this way? And we're being a a first tier specialty contractor. We're a couple steps from the owner.

Brett Dahmer: 01:41:09

We don't really have that direct voice to say, like, you're missing it. Right? Like, we could be doing this completely different. Yeah. We're we're a lot of times kind of, again, passive users on a system that's dictated to us by an owner and more often than not, usually a general contractor rather than a owner.

Brett Dahmer: 01:41:27

But so we find ourselves always kinda having to adapt to something else. Like, well, here's here's our way, but to be able to be successful in this space, we gotta adjust over here. And I think Procore adding a lot of continuity throughout the industry, certainly with our general contractor partners, I think that's gonna be something that we don't really quite understand the total value of or the benefit of, but I do think it will it will be noticeable, I think, in the future as we as we work in this direction. So parting thoughts.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:42:05

I'll go back to something I've I've told you a few times that I just want everyone to hear. I'm personally want to create an evangelist out of PCI. That's my my goal. Like, why it's goal? It's also a Procore's goal, but, like, yeah.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:42:18

And what I mean by an evangelist is I want a bunch of folks running around saying that, hey. This thing helps me do my job better. This thing helps me get home to my family. Yeah. Because I can this thing that took me this punch walk that took me a half hour takes me 5 minutes.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:42:35

You know, we have this new little feature right where you can dictate and just walk around and talk into Procore, then it'll just track the punch walk. And we found that it literally takes makes it, like, 10% as long, you know, instead of type you know, if you can imagine the delta between typing things in 1 at a time versus just talking and, like, videoing. That makes me happy. Right? I hear when I hear people's, oh, got that done in a snap and was home, you know, with my family.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:43:02

Like, that if I could turn, PCI into a bunch of evangelists because you deliver us feedback and we and we tweak the product, that would make me really happy.

Brett Dahmer: 01:43:13

Yeah. No. I think that's actually a really good way to put it. And, hey, we certainly hope to have the same experience, and I think we will. I'm actually actually, I I shouldn't keep saying I.

Brett Dahmer: 01:43:23

Our leadership team in general, all the way from Jason, our CEO, Pat, We're excited about this. I mean, we really are. We we feel like we're approaching it with a lot of realism, a lot of practicality, and at the same time, a ton of optimism for the future. Because we do believe this is going to allow us 2 years from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now to have a better base across the organization than what we do today. And with that, we think we can be more nimble.

Brett Dahmer: 01:43:58

We can grow quicker. We can get to new things quicker. And we we have just had a lot of challenges with that in the past as we've grown. I mean, we've gone from again, it wasn't probably 5 years ago, we're a 1,000,000,000. Now we're looking at 3,000,000,000.

Brett Dahmer: 01:44:13

Right? And and we're we're just seeing growth at a a rate we hadn't imagined, quite honestly. And we say it a lot, but we've we're finally to the point where we've we've outkicked our coverage for sure. And, now we're trying to put the pieces in place and and help our organization mature to really facilitate the the future generation of growth and and employees and leaders, both in the field as well as in our offices. So Cool.

Brett Dahmer: 01:44:42

Yeah. I appreciate you being here, man.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:44:43

Yeah. Thanks for the time. Same. Gosh. Our growth path too is so similar.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:44:48

We're we just crossed a 1000000000, and we're we're we're done staring now trying to get us to 3. Right? And so I feel like it's and and it and it it it happens with you being successful, happens with PCI being successful. Right? That's that's a part amongst many others, of of that equation.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:45:05

So, yeah, similar growth paths.

Brett Dahmer: 01:45:07

Well, good stuff. Well, you leaving here and going back to family in Santa Barbara?

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:45:12

To go home. Yeah. I'm gonna try to get home, and catch dinner. That's my goal.

Brett Dahmer: 01:45:17

Good stuff. Thank you, Wyatt.

Wyatt Jenkins: 01:45:18

Alright. Thanks.