PCG Connect

Mel Renfrow: 00:02

Welcome to Inside Out, our newest series where we take a deep dive look at performance contracting services and product lines. We'll be talking to the movers and shakers of performance contracting, the folks who make the big deals and then bring those big deals to life. So with that, let's get to it.

Mel Renfrow: 00:22

Today, we have an inside out episode, and we are going to be diving a little bit deeper into PCI mission critical services. So this is something that I've heard over the past couple years, and even I am not a 100% sure exactly everything this involves.

Mel Renfrow: 00:41

So this this will be a fun one. We're both gonna be on a journey here. Absolutely. So, in the studio, I have with me Rob Adams. Welcome, Rob.

Rob Adams: 00:50

Thanks, Mel. I'm happy to be here.

Mel Renfrow: 00:51

Yeah. So you're you're senior estimator, and you're out of, LA 557. Correct?

Rob Adams: 00:57

Correct.

Mel Renfrow: 00:57

And when how long have you been here? Is that 7 years or so?

Rob Adams: 01:02

So February will be the beginning of my 9th year.

Mel Renfrow: 01:05

Okay. Congratulations. Yeah. That's exciting. What's your background?

Mel Renfrow: 01:08

So how did how did you, how did you find PC? I'm assuming this wasn't your very first professional job. So Yes. How did you get in the industry and then how did you find us?

Rob Adams: 01:19

So it was a long twisted road. I spent, you know, straight out of high school, enlisted in the army.

Mel Renfrow: 01:26

Okay.

Rob Adams: 01:26

Spent the most of my twenties in the army. I had a break in service. So my first assignment was Fort Hood, Texas.

Mel Renfrow: 01:35

Okay.

Rob Adams: 01:36

Spent 3 years, on a tank crew. And right January 2001, got out of the army after my first enlistment. Went to school for a while, ended up getting a commercial driver's license, and, worked for a company called Werner Enterprises.

Mel Renfrow: 01:55

I've heard of them.

Rob Adams: 01:55

Yeah. And I drove all 48 states. Oh, wow. We spent a lot of time on the road. Did that for about 2 years.

Rob Adams: 02:04

March 2003, the war in Iraq started. Yeah. I reenlisted at that time, and was assigned to the 1st armored division in Germany.

Mel Renfrow: 02:16

Okay.

Rob Adams: 02:17

When I arrived in Germany, and showed up for my next duty station, I met my wife to be.

Mel Renfrow: 02:24

Nice.

Rob Adams: 02:24

Yeah. She wasn't, we spent I was in Germany there for about 3 years. We both deployed to Iraq.

Mel Renfrow: 02:31

Okay. So she is she She

Rob Adams: 02:32

was a soldier as well.

Mel Renfrow: 02:33

She's American. She's not German.

Rob Adams: 02:35

Yeah. She was also a soldier.

Mel Renfrow: 02:37

Okay.

Rob Adams: 02:37

And, we spent, 3 years in Germany. And, she's originally from Southern California.

Mel Renfrow: 02:45

Okay. And

Rob Adams: 02:46

so that's how we ended up back in California.

Mel Renfrow: 02:49

Where were you from originally?

Rob Adams: 02:51

Well, I jumped all around. Okay. Because I was a military brat myself.

Mel Renfrow: 02:53

So Alrighty.

Rob Adams: 02:54

Some time in Hawaii, Germany as a kid, Virginia for high school.

Mel Renfrow: 02:59

So you moved back to, SoCal. And then

Rob Adams: 03:03

Yeah. 2007. We get to Southern California. I took a job, driving trucks, going back to what I already knew Yeah. And, went to work for UPS.

Rob Adams: 03:15

And it wasn't long before I got myself into a management training program and, became a supervisor on the dock. And I worked on the freight dock at night for close to 6 years. Okay. And while I was doing that, went to school, got my bachelor's degree through the GI Bill. Nice.

Rob Adams: 03:35

And coming out of that, I was very fortunate to, have an acquaintance at PCI. Got an, got an interview through a friend. And, you know, they took a chance on me because I had never been in construction, didn't have a construction background.

Mel Renfrow: 03:53

That would that wasn't what you studied in school?

Rob Adams: 03:55

Nope. Nope. I had a degree in organizational leadership. And, just, you know, when I got the chance, just wanted to work hard. Yeah.

Rob Adams: 04:04

Yeah. I came in as a PE and, cut my teeth on the patient lift projects.

Mel Renfrow: 04:10

Okay.

Rob Adams: 04:10

If you remember those.

Mel Renfrow: 04:12

I do. Yeah. I do.

Rob Adams: 04:13

And so, did that for about 18 months as a PE. Mhmm. And then transitioned over into estimating, and I've been in estimating ever since.

Mel Renfrow: 04:24

Okay. So tell let's go we're glad to have you here. We're glad who who is your friend?

Rob Adams: 04:29

Dan O'Dell. Nice. Yeah. Our kids grew up together.

Mel Renfrow: 04:32

Okay.

Rob Adams: 04:32

Yep. Our daughters, swam on the same swim team for many years. And, so we're family friends. And, you know, he at the time, he was construction manager in LA. Mhmm.

Rob Adams: 04:44

And, he was able to to get me an interview. And yeah. Just, you know, what they say when you come into PCI, you really hit the lottery and you just, so yeah. That's my that was my long and twisted, road to PCI and just lucky to be here.

Mel Renfrow: 04:59

Yeah. Well, we're glad to have you. And it it's, I say this all the time. As a matter of fact, I just said it earlier. We recorded a podcast earlier, but a lot when people are new, they wanna know, okay, what's the path?

Mel Renfrow: 05:12

What's the most common career path? And there are some that are more common than others, But almost everybody, even before they're here versus when they're here, you know, I love it. Yeah. And Bill Massey, previous president and CEO, I mean, he started as a laborer and didn't have a college degree.

Rob Adams: 05:30

Right.

Mel Renfrow: 05:31

So I love this company. You work hard.

Rob Adams: 05:33

And That's the distinguishing factor. Yeah. And I think being an employee owned company, that's one of the, one of the the common threads you see across the organization is, everybody really cares a lot. Yeah. Everybody works really hard, and they're proud to be here.

Mel Renfrow: 05:48

Yeah. You're successful. I'm successful.

Rob Adams: 05:50

That's right.

Mel Renfrow: 05:51

The thing. Yeah. So let's get into mission critical. Yeah. Inquiring minds want to know, explain exactly what mission critical services are.

Rob Adams: 06:00

So when you when you hear mission critical, you know, you really should probably think data centers. That mission critical work isn't necessarily all or only data centers, but a lot of what we see are, in the data center area. Really, the common thread in the in in those types of jobs are fast paced schedules.

Mel Renfrow: 06:23

Okay.

Rob Adams: 06:24

It's less of a product line

Mel Renfrow: 06:26

Okay.

Rob Adams: 06:26

And more of a, just a type of fast paced project.

Mel Renfrow: 06:31

It's not necessarily just data set, but it has more to do with the schedule.

Rob Adams: 06:36

Does.

Mel Renfrow: 06:37

Does it have anything to do with reliability? Like, hey, if a data center or like a servers or if they go down, there's a lot of things that rely on that or no?

Rob Adams: 06:47

You know, data centers are very fast paced. When they are building data centers, they're usually rushing to market. The the one really critical execution is being able to meet a very fast paced schedule.

Mel Renfrow: 07:02

K.

Rob Adams: 07:03

And so where, you know, you see product lines like clean rooms, and we have a certain set of scopes that we provide in a clean room Right. Environment. What really separates mission critical work, I think, is is the fact that we're not limited to a certain type of scope, or certain few scopes. Certainly, there are special, specialty scopes that we provide in the data center environments. But really, those projects, are open for all of our commercial scopes.

Rob Adams: 07:32

We can do exterior framing. We can do exterior metal panels, cladding. On the interior, we can do all the framing and drywall. We can do all the door packages, all of our typical commercial scopes. But we can complement those with some specialty scopes like raised access flooring or structural ceilings or hot and cold aisle containment.

Rob Adams: 07:52

Okay. And so there certainly are some special scopes that are associated with those data centers. But it's really a very nice, type of project because we can we're not limited to what scopes we can provide. Any typical scopes that we we do, we can make a run for trying to provide.

Mel Renfrow: 08:10

Here's how my brain works. So I'm I'm like, when you go to set up a a project, right, it's it's less about the product line, like you said, and it's more about the building type?

Rob Adams: 08:19

Yes. Mhmm. Yes. Okay. Absolutely.

Rob Adams: 08:22

And the project execution type, I would say.

Mel Renfrow: 08:25

Okay. Yeah. So when did we get into mission critical work?

Rob Adams: 08:30

So I think PCI has been doing work in data centers for many years. You know, going back to, you know, probably 10 or 15 years, we've been doing work in those types of of buildings. The difference now is we are seeing so many. The scale of these projects is just massive. And so a lot of what we do is we follow our clients into these special markets.

Rob Adams: 08:56

And that's, you know, a couple of years ago when we when we put together the mission critical group. All of the branding was done to try and, you know, mirror what some of our GC partners are doing in their spaces for mission critical scopes. And so you'll see when you look at some of the larger GCs that we work with, their websites, are very similar to our websites. And they are branded very very similarly with mission critical.

Mel Renfrow: 09:26

Mhmm.

Rob Adams: 09:26

It's really just a buzzword. Kinda like an industry buzzword. Yep.

Mel Renfrow: 09:31

Okay. So it's floating out there. Obviously, our website is far superior than anyone else's. Absolutely. But, so it's kind of a industry buzzword out there, and then we're opportunistic and entrepreneurial spirit.

Mel Renfrow: 09:45

And we're like, hold up. Let's start this, you know, group.

Rob Adams: 09:49

Absolutely.

Mel Renfrow: 09:49

Okay.

Rob Adams: 09:50

And I think what really drove the group was we saw the opportunities to organize our efforts. Yeah. You know, we were working, I think, in different markets. Mhmm. Kind of all working towards the same goal, but independently.

Rob Adams: 10:04

And so, you know, Rick Harris' you know, his mission was to try to unite those efforts, really with a one PCG perspective. And so ever since we started the Mission Critical Group, in 2021, we meet monthly. And you know, we have over 22 different PCI offices that meet with us on our mission critical call.

Mel Renfrow: 10:29

Okay.

Rob Adams: 10:29

And and it's really it's diverse. I think there's, there's 15 what we would have used to call interior groups. Mhmm. And then 7, 6, actually ISS groups.

Mel Renfrow: 10:41

Can you hit do you have them?

Rob Adams: 10:42

Yeah. Hit me. I sure do. Well, I'd I'll tell you some of the larger ones. Yeah.

Rob Adams: 10:46

Portland and Phoenix, Chicago, Des Moines, Kansas City, certainly, the Bay Area, Los Angeles. But many of these different, branches are chasing this type of work. On the, you know, on the ISS side, it's Tampa, you know, with insulated metal panels. A lot of what we're seeing, in some of the Amazon facilities or Microsoft facilities, they're they have interior or insulated metal panels on the exterior. Yeah.

Rob Adams: 11:15

And so opportunities for our Tampa group. Lots of, you know, all the building insulation that we would typically do on any other commercial project. Those are all scopes that are available on data centers. And so there are lots of collaborative pursuits among the different branches. And when we put together the mission critical call, that's one of the primary focuses.

Rob Adams: 11:39

One of the ISS groups may get invited by a GC to go out and chase a project in Alabama, maybe. Yeah. And trying to figure out how we can support on the interior scopes is a big big drive and effort, you know, for the call.

Mel Renfrow: 11:56

Yeah. So where you mentioned some of the clients. So who are some of the what types of clients? Amazon, you you mentioned that. What are some others?

Rob Adams: 12:04

Yeah. So those are owners.

Mel Renfrow: 12:05

Sorry. Yep.

Rob Adams: 12:07

Amazon, Microsoft, or just to name a couple.

Mel Renfrow: 12:09

Okay.

Rob Adams: 12:10

There are there are many that are operating in the space. Some of the big ones, CoreSite, QTS, these are all owners.

Mel Renfrow: 12:20

Okay.

Rob Adams: 12:21

The GCs, diverse as well. Some of the big ones, Clune, Hits. We're doing work with Whiting Turner in California and in, the DC market. Lots of our typical GCs, Turner, being another big one. But then on the ISS side, we have clients like Southland that are just big mechanical contractors that we, you know, have typically done a lot of work with on that side of the business.

Rob Adams: 12:48

And that's what really, presents great opportunities is we can find these projects with so many different angles. And, just trying to get all the teams together so we can support each other and and really understand where the work is.

Mel Renfrow: 13:02

Yeah. So what are the different are there different types of mission critical projects?

Rob Adams: 13:07

I mean, certainly. There are different types of, data centers.

Mel Renfrow: 13:11

Okay.

Rob Adams: 13:12

There, you know, are very large, data centers that are that are positioned in major metropolitan areas, like Chicago, for instance, or Austin, or Los Angeles, or the Bay Area, a lot of these, very large, data centers that they call carrier hotels actually are positioned along the coast. Because there are undersea data cables coming from Asia or Europe that feed the data that is being moved from continent to continent. And so large data centers in downtown metropolitan areas. And then there are also data centers that are close to us, you know, right now here in Lenexa. These are these are mostly buildings that are pretty nondescript.

Rob Adams: 13:58

You may not recognize them when you drive by them every day. But this, you know, these are the type of data centers that when you pick up your phone and use Google something, right, that information is bounced to a nearby data center that are called edge data centers. Okay. And those are what really provide the power, to drive your typical mobile devices in your, you know, computer searches, and all of that. So it's it's, there are many different types of data centers that feed a very intricate web of connectivity.

Mel Renfrow: 14:31

I knew I was gonna learn stuff today.

Rob Adams: 14:34

It's it's really it's really a diverse network. Yeah. And that's what's driving so much of this the building, honestly, with, you know, very recently you guys had a podcast about AI and the future of artificial intelligence. Well, AI is a big driving factor for the building of these data centers. The amount of data that's gonna be required to support AI is it's really not even well known right now.

Rob Adams: 15:01

And so we have different markets around the country that are just absolutely exploding with opportunity. Northern Virginia is 1. K. Phoenix is another. It just is really breathtaking to see the amount of projects that are being that we're tracking.

Mel Renfrow: 15:19

Is it like evenly spaced across the country? Or do you know, like, how Silicon Valley for a long time was kind of the hub of technology. Is it evenly distributed?

Rob Adams: 15:28

It's not. It's not. What really one of the driving factors is location and the availability of land. These are large buildings. And so, you know, areas like Phoenix in the middle of the of the desert Yeah.

Rob Adams: 15:42

Have opportunities to build these large campuses. And so, you know, when they build these buildings, they typically provide they're large. They're 100 of thousands of square feet. That's what I

Mel Renfrow: 15:54

was gonna ask. Describe large. Yeah. So okay. 100 of 1000.

Mel Renfrow: 15:57

100 of

Rob Adams: 15:57

1000 of square feet. And the first phase of of a typical data center could involve, like, the core and shell of the build out of the actual building. And that's where, you know, we can come in with architectural scopes like exterior metal panels and typical metal stud framing, whether it's the core areas or the exterior of the building. And then from there, we can, typically how they do it is they'll build out the initial data hall. These data halls are massive.

Rob Adams: 16:26

Picture a huge empty room. We'll come in and build out those rooms. And depending on, you know, what the design is calling for, we'll set up that initial one data hall. And, from there, they have room to expand.

Mel Renfrow: 16:42

Okay.

Rob Adams: 16:42

But it's really about speed to market. They want to build these buildings as fast as they possibly can so that their tenants can get into those spaces.

Mel Renfrow: 16:52

Mhmm. So typically, you mentioned 100 of 1000 of square feet from when you break Earth until that's done where they can start moving things in. What are we talking?

Rob Adams: 17:02

Well, it really depends on project to project. Okay. But some of these buildings, I mean, we've seen them, you know, we've seen very large projects with the accelerated schedules of, you know, 18 months from, you know, breaking ground to having, you know, the initial data hall

Mel Renfrow: 17:19

Mhmm.

Rob Adams: 17:20

Open and ready for a tenant. I mean, the the projects themselves are not extremely complicated with the exception of the schedule. The schedule is always a challenge. Yeah. Right?

Rob Adams: 17:31

And so it's these are not your, extremely complicated architectural buildings with crazy corners and, you know, they're they're they're boxes, essentially, that they throw up. And and they make them look nice with exterior metal panels. And, but from a construction standpoint, they're not the most complicated projects.

Mel Renfrow: 17:51

Are we having like, you mentioned some like Alabama. So when it's Sure. On the coast or when it's near in, you know, metro area, so I assume part of it too is getting the labor right and or so do you have travelers or or how is how is that? It sounds there's a lot of similarities with clean room in some ways as far as locations maybe.

Rob Adams: 18:11

So there is a lot of work happening between branches to support each other. And that could be supplementing field labor on the projects themselves in whatever market that this happens to be going on in. But also estimating support services between branches, project management support, whatever, you know, may be needed to supplement whatever branch is seeing the most amount of activity. Yeah. A lot of that is happening right now.

Rob Adams: 18:39

And so, you know, as as these project opportunities pop up, once we, you know, we meet once a month on the mission critical call, and really look at those types of things. And then, you know, Rick Harris is really the driving effort of, ensuring all of these different markets get the, support that they need.

Mel Renfrow: 19:00

Yeah. It sounds like a lot of moving parts and and pieces to it.

Rob Adams: 19:03

For sure.

Mel Renfrow: 19:04

What are the schedules? Like, if it's an accelerated schedule, are we talking about around the clock? Or do they have, like, you know, AM PM shifts? Or is it a does it depend project to project?

Rob Adams: 19:14

Yeah. They can. It definitely is project to project. Every project is unique, and depends on you know, sometimes you're you're building out those spaces and they don't have a tenant yet. It's kind of the, if you build it, they will

Mel Renfrow: 19:26

come Yeah.

Rob Adams: 19:27

You know, method. So and, you know, sometimes by the time you start pre construction, they have a tenant, and then it's just off to the races. One of the biggest challenges we have on these jobs are, you know, trade stacking. So because of the schedule being so accelerated, everybody's in the same space at the same time, trying to get as much work done as possible. And, you know, so obviously safety, our number one core value, is just one of the bigger challenges on these projects, just to ensure that our guys are safe.

Rob Adams: 19:57

But one of the, I think, the nice things about it is our crews aren't always massive. You know, these are not humongous projects that require 200, you know, guys. These are you know, they can be depending on on the project large, labor forces required. But they're not always the case like that. So it can be, you know, it can be done with smaller crews, working on specialty scopes or whatever is required.

Mel Renfrow: 20:23

Do we do any for, like, government? Are there the different, different types of, customers that we're dealing with?

Rob Adams: 20:30

So there definitely are government projects. A lot of times, those, you know, you may not understand that it's a government project, you know, upfront. But yeah. So there there are certain owners that do certain types of work for the government. And you kinda know, you know, when those projects pop up and and who may be, you know, who the owner might be.

Rob Adams: 20:49

Yeah. But it doesn't really other than, you know, ensuring that we're in full compliance of, you you know, any of the government regulations that go along with some of these projects, it it doesn't really change the delivery method.

Mel Renfrow: 21:02

It's is it all new construction? Are we into retrofits yet? Or

Rob Adams: 21:07

Yeah. So most of it is new construction. Certainly there are instances where when we're called in to renovate an existing space, and maybe make a computer room larger. But most of it, in what we're seeing, the biggest, you know, growth area is new construction. You know, these are brand new buildings, campuses in in in a lot of areas.

Rob Adams: 21:30

Hillsborough, Oregon, our Portland office. Mhmm. If you get a chance, go go walk through some of their projects in Hillsboro. It's it's it's stunning to see how many of these data centers are popping up. I mean, full neighborhoods of data centers just coming you know, just being built and thrown up in in the matter of what's been years.

Rob Adams: 21:51

But it's Yeah. You know,

Mel Renfrow: 21:52

not a lot. It's like overnight.

Rob Adams: 21:53

It sure does.

Mel Renfrow: 21:54

Well, you know what I'm envisioning, Rob, is, have you ever been to Houston and, like, kinda down by where our office location, there's this bridge. And Houston, forgive me. I can't, you know, remember the name of the road or but, yeah, there's this bridge and you look over and it's just as far as I can see almost, there's refineries. Yeah. Right?

Mel Renfrow: 22:12

That's what I'm envisioning. Yep. But it's all all data centers.

Rob Adams: 22:16

It's all data centers. I mean, they're and and they're nice looking buildings, but they're just, you know, they're nondescript, boxes. Just, you know, San Jose, in certain areas of San Jose, they're just neighborhoods that you can drive through where data centers have just bought every building and torn down what was there and thrown a data center up in its place. And these are just industrial neighborhoods that you can drive through, and it's just stunning to see the amount of these of these buildings.

Mel Renfrow: 22:47

Do they have, like once they are occupied, I mean, are there a lot of employees in there? Or it seems like there's probably more space than people for sure.

Rob Adams: 22:56

So a lot of security. Yeah. A lot of security around these buildings. Support staff, you know, that are, in the buildings to ensure that the computers are running and there's no interruption. One of the ways that, data centers market themselves, is through redundancy.

Rob Adams: 23:13

And so, you know, they will say, if there is an interruption in power, that they have, you know, generators that can be spun up and, you know, fully fully engaged, fully active within a matter of seconds. Yeah. And so that's that's really how they differentiate themselves between the, you know, others is is their ability to provide, continuous, you know, power in non, or zero interruptions for their clients. A lot of these clients are Facebook and other, you know, social media companies or government entities that if they have an interruption to their services, you know, it can cause lots and lots of, repercussions throughout the system.

Mel Renfrow: 23:59

So I imagine when you're thinking about geography, obviously, you're looking for places to 1, land where there's land, but also maybe where there's less chance of catastrophic weather

Rob Adams: 24:11

Sure.

Mel Renfrow: 24:12

And things like that. So we're not building it on, the coast in New Orleans, I guess, is my is my point there.

Rob Adams: 24:17

There probably are some down there.

Mel Renfrow: 24:19

Yeah.

Rob Adams: 24:19

Yeah.

Mel Renfrow: 24:20

Yeah.

Rob Adams: 24:21

But, yeah. No. I think that that, you know, any they really build a lot of redundant efforts in or redundant services into these buildings, just to ensure that there's a constant level of service.

Mel Renfrow: 25:31

So if we won, I always ask this. So are there any notable awards or, you know, recognition that we've received from projects that we've completed?

Rob Adams: 25:41

I don't know of any off the top of my head. I know that there are a lot of very special projects that our that our teams have done,

Mel Renfrow: 25:48

over the years. Some of them.

Rob Adams: 25:50

What yeah. So, you know, I think one of the the notable projects is, or areas, that we work in are, like the Des Moines area. And Brad Klinkoffus and his team Yeah. Are doing, a tremendous amount of Microsoft work. And the opportunities up there are just stacked up.

Mel Renfrow: 26:14

What are the, biggest challenges that you say we that we face in this area?

Rob Adams: 26:20

You know, I think, with the amount of work on the horizon, it's probably finding, an adequate level of, you know, field for field teams and field leadership, but also project management teams and, estimating resources just to be able to, keep up with the amount of opportunities that are out there. And then always schedule. Schedule, schedule, schedule. It's, one of the biggest challenges on these projects.

Mel Renfrow: 26:46

Yeah. So what other who's our competition? So obviously, we can bundle some services maybe that others can't. Are are there who else who's our big competition? How many are there of them that you're running into?

Rob Adams: 27:00

There are quite a few. I mean, in in every market, we have local competition. You know, there are these are your your typical, you know, drywall teams, that are doing this kind of work. There are, yes, competitors that are doing some of the specialty scopes. There are fewer of them than there are, on the commercial side.

Rob Adams: 27:24

You know, in in California, for instance, you know, we really only have a couple of competitors on the on the raised access floor side of the business, and even on the structural, ceiling side of the business. And that makes it a little bit nicer to have a little bit less competition in with those specialty scopes. But it's still always very competitive.

Mel Renfrow: 27:47

Are there any differentiators that we have as PCI that maybe set us apart?

Rob Adams: 27:52

Absolutely. I think there are so many. You know, safety being one of them, of course. And then the other, I think just the the level of service that we can provide. That's something that I hear from our clients a lot.

Rob Adams: 28:04

It's the little things like picking up the phone. And, you know, just ensuring that our clients are getting the service that that we know, you know, they deserve and that we owe them. And so I think that those are our service our level of service. You know, it's performance contracting for a reason.

Mel Renfrow: 28:21

Yeah. Performance is in the word for a year.

Rob Adams: 28:23

Absolutely. So it's it's, you know, that's the biggest feedback I always get is that they want PCI on their jobs.

Mel Renfrow: 28:31

They need PCI on those jobs.

Rob Adams: 28:32

PCI on those jobs. Absolutely.

Mel Renfrow: 28:34

Late at night, you know. Yeah. Exactly. Are there any specific regulatory requirements on any of these? Maybe besides security, it sounds like on some of them, but anything else?

Rob Adams: 28:45

Every one of our product lines has certain, you know, regulations, you know, whether it's fire stopping or it's, scaffolding. You know, all of those things are still, you know, existing on mission critical projects. No difference than any other commercial project. You know, so, you know, some of the different materials that we install require some kind of certification depending on what it is. But other than that, you know, you don't need to be a certified data center technician or anything like that to be out building in these in these types of projects.

Rob Adams: 29:18

It really just comes down to ensuring that we're building in compliance with whatever regulatory, requirements are out there with whatever whatever products we're using.

Mel Renfrow: 29:29

Is it right to assume that most of these are joint ventures? The majority, or are there some that are self contained?

Rob Adams: 29:35

Sure. No. There are definitely branches out there that are, performing these on their own. When we try to bundle services, that is a a lot of times when the joint ventures come in. And so, you know, that is there are endless opportunities right now because of some of the the different markets that are so busy.

Rob Adams: 29:57

Just being able to not let opportunities pass and and and raise your hand, you know, in the monthly meetings if there are opportunities that they can't, you know, cover down on, and and seeing if the greater team has any ability to support with whatever it might be. You know, field field teams are estimating or project management support.

Mel Renfrow: 30:17

Yeah. So I imagine that's what the groups for you bring to the table. Here here are all the opportunities we have and then, okay, what can we do?

Rob Adams: 30:24

Absolutely. Yeah. And and it's it's all tracked very closely. I mean, we we're looking at right now, close to 800,000,000 in in, you know, opportunities right now out there across the different branches. You know, over, you know, fiscal year 22, in the mission critical space, we did about a 157,000,000 in revenue.

Mel Renfrow: 30:47

Not too shabby.

Rob Adams: 30:48

Not too shabby. And, you know, we we brought that in at roughly 27%, you know, margin.

Mel Renfrow: 30:54

So Thank you.

Rob Adams: 30:55

Yeah. It was it I mean, it's really it's it's those are fun projects. There are lots of opportunities. And our backlog looks strong.

Mel Renfrow: 31:04

Very nice. Yeah. Where where does it sit in backlog wise?

Rob Adams: 31:07

The backlog right now is sitting roughly a 175,000,000.

Mel Renfrow: 31:12

All these numbers are absolutely blunt just below my mind.

Rob Adams: 31:15

They're huge.

Mel Renfrow: 31:15

So is the cost, and I know it depends on how many, scopes we're, you know, completing.

Rob Adams: 31:22

Sure.

Mel Renfrow: 31:23

But in general, is it more labor heavy, more material heavy on the cost, or is it a pretty even split?

Rob Adams: 31:30

Yeah. It it really does depend on the scope. On some of the more on the specialty scopes like structural ceilings or access floor, those are typically material heavy contracts. You know, on our typical commercial stuff, they're usually labor heavy. And so it it really can depend on the scope we're providing for, you know, what client and what project.

Rob Adams: 31:51

But overall, I think we're doing a a great job, you know, across, the entire enterprise of trying to bundle services whenever we have the opportunity to do so.

Mel Renfrow: 32:02

Yeah. You mentioned AI. So I'm gonna kinda transition here. I'm I'm I'm grasping for a segue here, but Sure. Any new technology that you see that's out there on the horizon that we can utilize?

Rob Adams: 32:14

Well, you know, I think, we're using, Dusty, robot, to do layout in some of our facilities right now.

Mel Renfrow: 32:23

So tell tell us more about Dusty.

Rob Adams: 32:25

Yeah. So, if you've seen any of these videos, they're pretty amazing. But, you know, just picture, like, your typical vacuum at your house, your little robotic vacuum that fall follows away. Well, it's it, you know, it has the ability to download a set of plans, and go out and lay out on the, slab, whatever you're building. If it's, you know, our wall our typical walls or raised access floor or whatever we're gonna use, ceilings, whatever we're gonna build, it can we can utilize Dusty to do the layout.

Rob Adams: 32:59

And it's incredibly accurate. And our clients, the feedback we're getting from our clients is very positive. And so we are always looking for opportunities to use that.

Mel Renfrow: 33:09

Did we name him Dusty or is this like somebody I think

Rob Adams: 33:12

that's an industry name.

Mel Renfrow: 33:13

Okay. It sounds like something somebody here would come up with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Renfrow: 33:19

So that's that's really cool to, do we have videos? I mean, it

Rob Adams: 33:24

We certainly do.

Mel Renfrow: 33:25

Like on the website where people can go? I don't know

Rob Adams: 33:26

if it's on the website yet. We we definitely have some locally in Los Angeles of Dusty doing this thing.

Mel Renfrow: 33:33

You know what? I bet, I bet whenever they post this, the real geniuses here the real geniuses of PCG will, maybe be able to put a link in there for people that are curious.

Rob Adams: 33:43

Absolutely.

Mel Renfrow: 33:45

We need also that remember the old buzz Budweiser campaign, Real Men of Genius?

Rob Adams: 33:49

Yeah. Absolutely. So after

Mel Renfrow: 33:51

this, we're gonna have you sing that logo.

Rob Adams: 33:54

Is that the next podcast series?

Mel Renfrow: 33:55

Yeah. Exactly. You helped to clear up a lot of I didn't understand what mission critical, you know, what I first of all, I kept thinking mission impossible every time I I heard this, but so a lot of a lot of clarity there. Do you see it sounds like from the start, how much it's has it grown? I'm sure we were doing projects that fit under this, but we weren't classifying it as mission critical, but we've seen quite an uptick here lately.

Rob Adams: 34:25

We have. I mentioned, we ended fiscal year 22 with a 157,000,000 in revenue. Through July, we're already at 212 million in revenue. So we've had quite the growth over just, you know, a half a year. And so we we, you know, I think there's nothing but opportunity, on those types of projects.

Rob Adams: 34:46

And the, you know, the more we meet, the more we, talk to each other across the branches. And, you know, the more we we look for these opportunities, the more we seem to find. We're attending industry events whenever we can. 7 by 24 is one of the bigger industry groups that we are a part of. And so we are attending their national meetings and their local meetings, and trying to do as much networking as we can.

Rob Adams: 35:12

And and really, you know, at a local level, understand who the players are, you know, at the, with certain, you know, with our clients or, even our peers. Even our, you know, the mechanical contractors and the electrical contractors. And we're trying to talk with them so that we can understand where the projects are and and how we can, you know, get invited to to support those projects. So it's really about knocking on doors, trying to build those relationships. As I said, some markets are way busier than others.

Rob Adams: 35:45

You know, I don't think right now Phoenix is knocking on anybody's door trying to look for data center opportunities. There are just so many of them Yeah. Right now. And so, you know, but in Los Angeles, we we haven't had as many mission critical opportunities. And so we we really are in the building phase of trying to build that that scope or that that product line in in Los Angeles.

Rob Adams: 36:10

And there are other areas of the of the country that are similar to that, and and we're more in the building phase and trying to identify opportunities. And so, you know, I think that's what makes it fun though. Yeah. You know, for me. I that's what I enjoy is is looking for the opportunities and trying to connect the different groups.

Rob Adams: 36:26

And, you know, I've I've had, a a great amount of well, great opportunity, really, to support Rick Harris in this in this effort on the mission critical side. And so he's, given me, a great opportunity to to help lead the mission critical calls and try to help, you know, when opportunities present themselves, trying to help organize, you know, our effort in the mission critical space, and connect different teams, and find clients in certain markets, and, connect our teams with them. And, I've I've really enjoyed that part of it.

Mel Renfrow: 37:01

I can tell. I can tell that you like that part of it. So do you think you're doing, more of that than actually on the I'll call it on the table, like, actually taking things off. It sounds like you're more of a, I'll call you like a Chuck Woolery love connection, where you're kinda taking in all the opportunities and then helping execute them?

Rob Adams: 37:20

So I I would say, I'm trying to organize really the information on the backside of of the effort. I can't take any credit for anything that anybody else is doing other than, what I have been, you know, asked to do and just try and and help organize our our meetings once a month and, help make connections when possible. You know, I think on right now, currently, in Los Angeles with the limited amount of opportunity on the mission critical side, I have had a lot of opportunities lately to spend more time knocking on doors, building relationships, bid some of this exciting work. Yeah. You know, we have had opportunities in Los Angeles over the last few years, and we've done 3 or 4 projects.

Rob Adams: 38:15

And, they've been very successful. And we hope to do more. But right now, for whatever reason, in Southern California especially, there just haven't been a lot of opportunities. I think it's just the cost of construction in California that's really driving that slowdown right now.

Mel Renfrow: 38:30

Are there any other major markets where there's concerted effort to grow in this area?

Rob Adams: 38:35

Absolutely. I mean, really, Spokane, the the branch up in Spokane is doing a lot of joint ventures with Portland right now as they grow that market. And they've had some tremendous projects up in Spokane. And, you know, watching that grow has been fun. And watching, you know, the teams to teams come together and deliver successful projects.

Rob Adams: 38:57

And, you know, I think, there are many examples of that all across, the company right now. And so maybe we'll sit down next year and and be able to look at numbers and just be amazed at how much has grown, over the next 12 months.

Mel Renfrow: 39:13

Yeah. Back to the challenges piece, something I just thought of. So do a lot of these contracts, because they're driven by schedule, something we need to really look out for liquidated damages. Do they have that built in? Is that kind of like, something lurking behind us that we're, you know, keeping in mind?

Rob Adams: 39:33

Yeah. Absolutely. So as we talk challenges, I mean, there's a lot of preplanning that goes into these projects, especially on the you know, with the specialty scopes. Some of the lead times are longer with those types of materials. Yeah.

Rob Adams: 39:48

And so really being able to communicate what those lead times are effectively and thoroughly at bid time is really, really important. You definitely don't wanna sign a contract or a schedule that we can't meet. And so understanding what the schedule is, being able to inform our client of what, you know, the lead times are, so that we can keep them informed. And, you know, raise raise the flag if there is something that, you know, if there's something in the schedule that we just can't meet. And so being able to identify those and then really managing that process, the ordering of the material, the inventorying of the material to ensure that, you know, when it's time to go out and step on-site and build, this building that, you know, we've got our ducks in a row Mhmm.

Rob Adams: 40:37

That we've planned. And we've, you know, hopefully we get out there and we drive the project like I think we do better than almost any other contractor.

Mel Renfrow: 40:45

Yeah. I agree. And the other side too, like on the materials, if it's running behind, it's not like we have a warehouse that can store

Rob Adams: 40:52

Exactly. Can

Mel Renfrow: 40:53

store all this stuff too. So And

Rob Adams: 40:54

I think, you know, we owe that, to our client to effectively communicate whatever challenges we're seeing. Because there's never been a project that's not gonna have challenges. It's just how we manage through those challenges. I think that's what gets PCI invited back, you know, to go do multiple projects in a row. And, you know, with the schedules being as accelerated as they are, we see that a lot.

Rob Adams: 41:17

You know, these clients are beholden to their owners.

Mel Renfrow: 41:20

Sure.

Rob Adams: 41:21

And they don't wanna reinvent the wheel. If they bring PCI out there and we knock it out of the park, a lot of times they'll just bring us back for the next phase because they don't wanna take the risk of having to reinvent the wheel with a different contractor. And why break it or why fix it if it isn't broke?

Mel Renfrow: 41:38

Yeah. You know? Hey. We'll always take negotiated work over a hard bit. Right?

Rob Adams: 41:42

Absolutely.

Mel Renfrow: 41:43

I I have a theory that construction is a lot like gambling. Right? There's a lot of variables. And so deep down, I think all of us, we like to gamble a little bit, and there's no perfect project without challenges, like you said. So it's almost kinda like, okay.

Mel Renfrow: 42:02

Let's try to predict what the challenge is gonna be on this one and how we're gonna overcome it.

Rob Adams: 42:07

Well, I think if we're if we're tracking our lessons learned, we should know that. And as we do as we build more and more of these, right, some of the same challenges pop up and we're prepared for them on the next project. And I think, you know, that's important always, to be able to understand where we can improve and, you know, how we track that. And so, you know, I think that that's another reason why, you know, these clients really lean on PCI for these accelerated projects.

Mel Renfrow: 42:37

Absolutely. So, anything out there? Any any, word on the street, scuttlebutt, or anything that you've heard out there that are just misconceptions about mission critical?

Rob Adams: 42:49

Yeah. I mean, I think, anybody who approaches these projects like they would any typical project may be misstepping or miss you know, or not understanding what they're getting themselves into. And so once you do a few of these projects, you really understand the importance of being able to do all the preplanning upfront to ensure that you're gonna hit that schedule. Because like you said, liquidated damages are in our contract a lot of the times. And so you don't wanna be in a position where you are causing a delay to the project.

Rob Adams: 43:20

And so I think, you know, for some contractors, if you approach this project like you would any other project, you could really misstep quickly.

Mel Renfrow: 43:29

Is there a possibility of somebody bidding and winning a project and not realizing it's mission critical. What what what are the big flags? Like, if these things are true, ask a question.

Rob Adams: 43:43

Yeah. Well, you know, there's always a big red flag if you're bidding a project and there's no project schedule associated with it. Right? If there's no schedule, then that's, you know, the first red flag. And so under really truly understanding the schedule, and then also understanding your supply chain, and whether or not your vendor partners are gonna be able to support you on the project.

Rob Adams: 44:05

We're only as good as our vendor partners and our subcontractors, and our own teams. Right? So if if we would never want to embark on a project, if we know our vendor partners are not gonna be able to meet a certain schedule or so it's it's not always just about us. It's ensuring that we have a full understanding of what we owe, the timeline that we owe it in, and, you know, understanding what the challenges are to being able to get our material on-site.

Mel Renfrow: 44:37

So definitely not something to figure out as you go.

Rob Adams: 44:39

No. And I'm sure somebody's done it along the along the way. But, I'm sure that doesn't turn out well.

Mel Renfrow: 44:46

Anything else that you wanna touch on, Rob?

Rob Adams: 44:48

I don't think so.

Mel Renfrow: 44:50

So what is the main takeaway Yeah. That you want people that have about mission critical services?

Rob Adams: 44:58

I would say the takeaway is out of all the different product lines and, opportunities that we have as a company right now, man, this is really perfectly situated for the one PCG effort. These projects, I think, more than a lot of projects, give us the opportunity to really bundle services and bring teams together to, you know, for scope growth. And, really, at the end of the day, I think it's it's how we support our clients. And the more, opportunities we have to show them the different scopes that we can provide and how we can support them, I think, will really, at the end of the day, only help us as we grow as a company.

Mel Renfrow: 45:39

Nicely said. Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us today.

Rob Adams: 45:42

For having me.

Mel Renfrow: 45:43

Yeah. Absolutely.