PCG Connect

Brad Harbold: 00:00

On three, two

Mel Renfrow: 00:02

do that. Is it on, first of all?

Brad Harbold: 00:04

Yeah. It's been on.

Mel Renfrow: 00:05

That is my biggest fear that we sit in here, and then it isn't on at the end. Hey there, everyone. Welcome to pop culture. This series will focus on all things that are related to the people of performance. Get it?

Mel Renfrow: 00:22

People of performance, pop, pop culture? From individual interviews to hearing more about the programs in place to make all of our lives better, pop culture is here to tell you what's new in the performance people biz. Okay. Well, welcome. I'm really excited.

Mel Renfrow: 00:40

Today, we are doing an episode and it's to introduce Mary Elizabeth Lackey. So she is our new Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer. And I think everybody has probably seen you on town halls and pop up here and there, but, I know a little bit more about you. So we wanted the rest of the organization to learn a little bit more about you. And then we also have Jason Hendricks here with us.

Jason Hendricks: 01:07

Hi, Mal.

Mel Renfrow: 01:08

Hi, Jason. He just snuck in here. No. We wanted Jason in here, just because this is a new role and kind of explained the why behind things. So welcome to both of you.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 01:18

Thank you so much.

Mel Renfrow: 01:19

Yeah. So I just want to start. Tell, tell everyone a little bit about yourself. I know that's a broad topic, but where did you grow up?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 01:28

We'll begin in the beginning. Yeah. No. So I grew up in Central Kansas. I was born and raised on a farm, spent kind of first eighteen years around cattle and lots of lots of land.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 01:41

And then after graduation, I went to K State. A huge K State fan. Anybody who wants to, come and cheer on for K State always. I think we have one or two

Mel Renfrow: 01:49

people here that are alumni. Yeah. I hear that. I hear that.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 01:52

I'm really excited. Like, the most the place there where there's been the most K staters. So it's great. But enjoyed my time at k state. And, after there, started a journey that would take me around the Midwest, to Missouri.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 02:09

Lived right outside of Saint Louis and Maryland Heights, then to Colorado and Aurora, then down to Louisiana. I picked up a husband and, four kids along the way.

Jason Hendricks: 02:22

Were they hitchhiking?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 02:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Renfrow: 02:23

They they

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 02:24

just kind of appeared. That's what I hear. Like, they just like the kids just somehow, appeared with with us. And, then after being in Louisiana, we went overseas for seven years and came back The States in 2021. So we've had a really like, it's really great, coming to PCG because Kansas person, born and right like, Kansas has always been home.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 02:48

If you've ever asked me where home was, it has always been Kansas. But I have only been in Kansas City since 2021. So if you want the best restaurants, I'm not your person unless there's a play place. I know all the ones that, have kid menus and play places. That's where we, dine at this point still.

Jason Hendricks: 03:09

I didn't know if you were if it was, like, a kid friendly or if this was, like, theater dinner.

Mel Renfrow: 03:13

And that's what I thought.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 03:14

It could be. Like, I I I mean, I would love a good theater dinner. That would be awesome.

Mel Renfrow: 03:19

Yeah. So you love musicals. Right?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 03:22

I do love musicals.

Mel Renfrow: 03:23

Yes. Is that what you wanted to do when you grew up?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 03:26

When I was little like, if you would've asked me when I was a kid what I wanted to do when I grew up, I wanted to go to Broadway. I wanted to get out of Kansas and go to Broadway and be on Broadway. And my parents were, like, super smart. My junior year of high school, they never told me no. But my junior year of high school, they took me to New York.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 03:43

Mhmm. And my mom had a connection with Greece, and they took me backstage. And I loved it. And then then I talked to some of the people, and there was, like, nine people living in one apartment. And they all had, like, three jobs.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 03:56

And I decided I wasn't gonna go to Broadway and went to college instead. And, that was how that was my journey of a little bit of a pivot from going to Broadway because when I actually went there and saw it, I thought, I I can be a theater teacher

Mel Renfrow: 04:12

Yeah. Instead

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 04:15

of going to Broadway. So a little bit of a pivot in life. And now I'm here.

Mel Renfrow: 04:19

And now you're here. So what are the range of ages of your kids?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 04:22

So right now, I have, junior who's 17, freshman who's about to turn 15, sixth grader and who's 11, and a 10 year old fourth grader.

Mel Renfrow: 04:34

Three schools?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 04:35

Three schools. Yeah. We've been in three schools since my oldest went to high school. So we're pretty we we navigate the school schedules and the school emails.

Mel Renfrow: 04:44

Yeah. The emails is Emails. Yeah. And all Oof.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 04:47

Yeah. Like, when there's a snow day, we get everything three times. And then we usually get three emails, you get a text, and then stuff on social media. So they wanna make sure, you know, they don't want your kid like, your kids are staying home today.

Jason Hendricks: 04:59

Yeah. I get it. Don't

Mel Renfrow: 05:01

drop them

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 05:02

off yet.

Mel Renfrow: 05:02

Don't bring

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 05:03

them to us.

Mel Renfrow: 05:04

So I'm going to come back because I'm really interested to hear in some of your experience and what you did when you were overseas and, you know, where you lived because I hear you can give restaurant recommendations potentially overseas in some of the places you lived. Maybe. Maybe. So, but now I want to talk to you, Jason. So this is, by definition, a new role.

Mel Renfrow: 05:27

We've never had anyone with this title before. So why? Why are did you decide to go this direction? And talk about the timing of it too.

Jason Hendricks: 05:36

Okay. So I guess I'll take a step back and although titled differently than maybe what we've had in the past, I I wouldn't say it's completely new for us as an organization. But that being said, I guess, going back to '20 when I came into this role, one of the things that I'm a big believer in is continuing to improve, whether that's personally or organizationally. And as I continue to, I guess, grow my network and talk with other leaders in our industry and then trying to assess how do we continue to support and enhance our people focused culture that we have and the benefits that we provide and employee ownership and everything that kinda wraps up in the people umbrella. One of the things that we started looking at is where and how could we introduce somebody that has a deep level of experience in this space.

Jason Hendricks: 06:36

And that journey first started on interviewing board members. And so at that point in time, without really knowing where to go and how to start, I reached out to Korn Ferry and went through their board candidacy process, which was very eye opening for me and for us as an organization.

Mel Renfrow: 06:56

Yeah. Because you don't know what you don't know.

Jason Hendricks: 06:59

Correct. And they were great partners in in in this journey for us. And I would it's somewhat analogous to, like, an a la carte menu. So you kind of pick and choose what you're looking for, what industries, you share the values of the organization. So there's a little bit of intake from us, and then that's kind of matched up and married to their database of individuals.

Jason Hendricks: 07:21

And what was so eye opening is that when they initially came back, I think there was 12 people that they wanted to put in front of us. And it was really, really interesting to see the quality of talent and the level of leaders and the organizations that they were part of that wanted to that had interest in a privately held company in, you know, Middle America. And, so as that process went along, we ended up, bringing Debbie Pickle aboard. And she's just been a great resource for us. As you know, kind of like 20 to 2020 to now, the world of of people and human resources and compliance and everything that goes into really supporting our people has changed tremendously.

Jason Hendricks: 08:13

It's accelerated tremendously. And I felt like this was the right place to introduce this sort of talent into our organization and to support what we wanted to do moving forward. As we started getting to know Debbie more and as we started to understand the value that that voice and that leadership could bring to our organization, I quickly thought, okay. Now that I understand this better, I think there's an opportunity for us to bring somebody in to play the role of CHRO. Right?

Jason Hendricks: 08:47

I had a lot of conversations with Debbie on on her role and how that has benefited the organization that she's part of, and it really opened my mind to the opportunities that it could bring to performance contracting.

Mel Renfrow: 09:01

So does scale have something to do with it, too? I mean, obviously, we had people in house, like you said, that were already doing the role and maybe not one person doing all of them. So just talk a little bit about that, how that played into.

Jason Hendricks: 09:14

I think I think scale is important. I think perspective is important. You know, I think we have a rich culture for promoting from within, and this was a deviation for that. And obviously, that was gonna come with some challenge. But through it all, I think looking at where we wanted to go and how we wanted to continue to support our people in a lot of different ways, it was almost, let's start with the end in mind, and whether that's where we wanna be or the the size and the complexity of the organization that we wanna become, and let's let's actually hire for that position in the future versus where we're at today.

Jason Hendricks: 09:56

And that was kind of the leap of how we, how we started down this path. And, hey, we will always bias towards promoting from within. We'll always celebrate that. But there's gonna be needs, at time as we continue to grow, that we may outpace what we currently have inside of our organization. So how do we continue to move ahead and how do we continue to support our operations and the growth that we see as an organization, specifically in this in this role.

Jason Hendricks: 10:24

How do we continue to support our people the best we can and provide the best experience, for not only our people, but for the organization, on retaining people and recruiting people and growing people and and supporting them through their their career journey. And that's how we started down this path of of bringing in Mary Elizabeth. I went right back to Korn Ferry, and I said, you guys did an excellent job on the board side. Now I need to do it for an executive level position. And we went through the same process.

Jason Hendricks: 10:57

And, that's where we were we were introduced, and we went back and forth several times with interviews. And this is, again, an opportunity for us to really highlight how not only do we use our internal resources to figure out a good cultural fit for this sort of position, but I also leveraged Debbie quite a bit as well, and Debbie interviewed Mary Elizabeth as well. And so this was kind of like in full circle how all of this should work in tandem to complement and to really support how do we best service the organization moving forward.

Mel Renfrow: 11:33

So you talked about beginning with the end in mind type of thing, which I do that. I'm I final four, you know, March Madness, I always start with the final four and then I work my bracket backwards. Some people call it me a psychopath. I call it smart. But anyway, you used it, you know, kind of the same methodology.

Mel Renfrow: 11:54

So thinking about that, how do you see HR playing a strategic role in the future?

Jason Hendricks: 12:00

Well, again, I think it really there's a lot of tentacles, you know, from HR into basically everything that we do. Right? Whether it's on the intake of bringing people into the organization, it's when they're in the organization and how do we continue to support them in their journeys? How do we continue to support the needs of the organization from a a talent development standpoint? How do we continue to translate what what our operations need to best support that.

Jason Hendricks: 12:29

I mean, there's a lot of different ways that this position will help us and has helped us, move ahead. You need to think about, like, benefits. What are we doing? What is the market doing? How do we bring in outside perspective?

Jason Hendricks: 12:44

And I think that's one of the things that I think we've really benefited. And one of the things that I've really appreciated from Mary Elizabeth is that she hasn't been quick to, well, here's all the things you need to change. It's very much led with a listening approach, and then where she sees opportunity, it's, okay, in my experience or from my perspective, or have you ever thought of this, that's where it gets us to really think differently. And what I love about that is sometimes it has moved us off of a position. Sometimes it's reinforced the position that we've had, but being able to really lean on somebody that has that depth of knowledge and perspective has been really beneficial for us as as an organization.

Jason Hendricks: 13:27

I mean, we're we've been talking quite a bit over the last couple of weeks. We're preparing for strategic planning, and just even some of what that conversation and what that week will look like is a little different in the people space as well. And I think all of this is really healthy and gives us a great opportunity for us to continue to enhance what performance contracting looks like and what that experience looks like for our people.

Mel Renfrow: 13:51

So you've been here since October 7. Correct?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 13:55

That's right.

Mel Renfrow: 13:57

So I guess first impressions. Once you started working on the culture, I guess, let's just start with the culture, the general vibe, as I like to say.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 14:06

Well, the first thing I was so impressed with was how authentic the recruiting experience was to the people that I met. Because so many times, especially even being in HR, you're like, okay, am I just getting sold? Like, you have to sit and really assess, am I getting sold something? Or is this how everybody is? And the my first impression I mean, I remember going home and telling Steve, my husband, wow.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 14:31

Like, everybody is exactly how I interviewed remembered them from the interview. Everything that I would tell him about, hey, I'm talking to this company called PCG, is exactly how on my first week, my first month, even continuing now, which is really refreshing and gets me excited from a culture perspective that we have a really strong cultural foundation and good thing you know, just good people here.

Mel Renfrow: 14:59

Well, Jason told us we were on a six month contract, so all hell's gonna break loose. We can be ourselves finally in April. Come April. Look out.

Jason Hendricks: 15:08

I mean, this is, like, totally in left field. Have you any has anybody seen Funny Farm?

Mel Renfrow: 15:12

Yeah. With Chevy Chase? Yeah.

Jason Hendricks: 15:14

Right. It's when he's trying to sell his house. Yeah.

Mel Renfrow: 15:16

Yeah. The whole town, they're trying to sell the house. The whole town gathers around and essentially they're putting on a play. And yeah, it's pretty funny. Look it up.

Mel Renfrow: 15:25

So talk about where did you work before? Like, what is your experience in in the HR space as well?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 15:31

Yes. I've had a really diverse HR. Like, if you look at from academic HR, I started off in retail, then I spent majority of my career, thirteen plus years, in oil and gas or energy. And that's the one that took me around The US and really took me around the world. And then for the last three years, I have been in steel construction.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 15:49

So I've been telling everyone, I in the construction world, I went from the outside and the roof to the inside.

Mel Renfrow: 15:55

Yeah. So

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 15:55

now that's what we're looking at is how do we, you know, how do we do not only the interiors, but I'm learning other things like scaffolding, stuff that's still outside. But, it was all it was steel construction was my most recent HR experience. But international companies, US based companies, different like, just a wide variety of experience.

Mel Renfrow: 16:16

But you do have when you think about culture I mean, I asked the question because when you come in, it's not like you're a a rookie. You've lived overseas. I never have. I've just visited. But I can imagine when you're working overseas and the cultural norms, how much you just have to observe and adapt to those things.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 16:34

I appreciate that Jason was saying about the listening approach. Living overseas really taught me about the listening approach because you you kinda see something online or you read something ahead of time. You hear what it is. I remember going to Dubai and, you know, you hear this is what it's gonna be like, but until you get there and you listen to people and you learn about them, you don't really know what's going on and it just changes a different perspective and maybe stereotypes that you think or might be. And so I feel like my international experience has really improved my listening skills and also just broadened my horizon, just stuff I didn't, I didn't know before I did, till I lived overseas.

Mel Renfrow: 17:13

Yeah. So now that you've settled in a bit, you still have this little, you know, window before all hell breaks loose and we're ourselves. But now that you're starting to settle in, what do you see as some of your key priorities or opportunities here? Or anything you'd like to strengthen?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 17:30

Yeah. So I think it's exactly that strengthen is you're right, Mel, is we're building on the foundation. You when I think about the people team, and we got three great departments that have built so many wonderful things, it's around bringing them together and being prepared for that future that Jason talks about and getting everyone excited for it and talk working with the business. One big thing I'm really passionate about is aligning with the business to help really unlock and remove obstacles and unlock that potential, so that we can be ready for all of the opportunities out there. And so when I think about my priority, it's really about listening, focusing on my team, and then really aligning with the business so we can start running and looking at that great growth that the so many exciting things happening out here.

Mel Renfrow: 18:19

Do you see anything, you know, with your network, any, I don't know, opportunities within the industry itself or trends within the HR space?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 18:30

I I think what's happening in the world is coming to HR, which is the digitization, data, data analytics, use of AI. All of that is when we think about growth and growing growth responsibly, but also growing you know, how do you grow faster is what are those digital opportunities? What's our data look like? And how can we really build on that foundation? So that would be one trend that really I read a lot about, and I really stay up on to make sure that we're prepared for the future.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 19:06

Yeah. I'm a techie. I like to geek out.

Mel Renfrow: 19:09

Nerd. Nerd alert. Nerd alert. You've got one to your right or left. I'm looking at you, Jason.

Jason Hendricks: 19:16

You said right. That goes around to you, Brad.

Mel Renfrow: 19:19

No. No. Brad and I ducked. It goes right back over to you. So I want to go back to the culture piece.

Mel Renfrow: 19:29

One thing that I think is pretty meaningful is you're the very first woman that's been on the leadership group. And, I guess, when did you figure that out, and what does it mean to you? And if you've heard from any females in the company.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 19:45

I think I I figured it out when we were going I had an one of our interviews were with Alan and Mike and Jason. And, of course, then what do you do? You go to the website, go check out all the leadership. And I think I asked Jason about I was like, so there's no women on the website. And that's when I first started hearing or getting the sense of what, this opportunity was.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 20:07

First, I'd like to just give a shout out to their you have had amazing female leaders. I'm sitting across from one right now, Mel Yu, and there's been lots of great senior leaders, women that have kind of paved the way for this. But, yeah, I I it was my first week that I had women reaching out to me saying, we're so excited to meet you, so excited to see a female leader. I had some that said, you know, female leader who's a mom, of my like, I call it my herd. It's my small herd of four kids.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 20:34

And so I really, I hold that with pride. I also hold that with, trust and honor that we're gonna do great things. But I have a feeling with this company, I'm I am just the first and there will be many more.

Jason Hendricks: 20:47

So so one of the things that I just wanna jump in here and and, make sure that I I emphasize through this process is not only are you looking for somebody that technically checks the boxes, but for us and for the role and the opportunity and the visibility that this was gonna have, making sure that you have a cultural fit is really, really important. And I think what you heard and what, like, I think Mary Elizabeth reinforced from some of the the time that I've been able to spend with her going back to the first interview is you have a deep, I guess, sense of family, very grounded, very humble. There's a lot of alignment from a, like, a family value standpoint. Just her upbringing, it just there's so many alignment points for us as a company and for our people, that it just was a natural fit. They're you know, again, you can look at a lot of resumes and you can be wowed by all of the technical, capabilities and the experience, but it's really matching that with how is this person gonna show up, and how are they going to integrate inside of our culture.

Jason Hendricks: 22:02

And and that was really that that separation point for me and looking at her and and and other candidates that really kinda sealed the deal for me and others that I brought into into the interview process.

Mel Renfrow: 22:14

Yeah. Well, and it's having that perspective too, right, that is unique, that comes along with it. So are there any initiatives or programs, projects that you're most excited to kinda start implementing or looking into?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 23:26

I I've spent a lot of time in our Glint survey, and I'm really excited to help lead that process through the LG and throughout the you know, really lead it throughout the whole company because I think that we do listen to our our employees. We live everybody gave their feedback, and I spent, like, three days just reading every single comment, making notes about comments, digesting them. Yeah. Doing a little data too, just trying to see how we can process them as well too. But I'm really excited that I think that if everybody's having the, conversation with the culture we have, we can make some good meaningful, I don't want to say changes because sometimes it's just doing the same thing, but more or better different.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 24:10

But I do think that people will hear their feedback and be heard and do things, that will make meaningful change.

Mel Renfrow: 24:18

Yeah. So you talked in the town hall the other day just about, you know, just off the top, there were some questions that could be answered. And then is there anything else with how many comments was it? I couldn't 2,000.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 24:29

I think it was it's twenty four zero eight.

Jason Hendricks: 24:31

20 80 eight.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 24:32

20 80. There you see. Nerd. So,

Jason Hendricks: 24:37

No shame here.

Mel Renfrow: 24:38

So with the comments, I think sometimes people, you know, we're hearing them and just because we're not replying directly to it where you're, you know, you're trying to, behind the scenes, figure out the themes and investigate not investigate, but look further into it.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 24:55

Absolutely. I mean, like, I that that shows that we read them all because there were some questions and I started marking them. And I was like, hey. We could just answer these questions. Like, there's genuine just, hey.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 25:05

What what is this? Where is this? Why do we do this? Let's gather those all up and answer them. But I think also when you look at the comments, I speak in a lot of metaphors.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 25:14

And the metaphor I give you, it's a little bit like a grocery list or if you ask your kids for a grocery list of what of what they want. It's all of these things, but you have to sit there and really decide, what are we gonna eat for dinner this week? How do we eat it in a digestible way? We're gonna prioritize this first. Maybe that this was a comment that a few people had, which doesn't mean that it's not important.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 25:37

It's just that we have to make some choices of how do we look at what the comments are and how do you create an action plan around it.

Mel Renfrow: 25:46

Exactly. So switching a little bit. So obviously, hiring is and retaining people and training people and is super important here. So what's your approach, I guess, to the talent acquisition part and then also leadership development?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 26:02

So I think we have a really strong talent acquisition team and process. I mean, if you look at PCG's really ahead of the times from my perspective when it comes to being on the campuses, having those relationships, your second interview process. I mean, internships where we have third year interns. All things that if you're asking me, like, what from an academic perspective should we be doing? There's a lot of stuff that p PCG is just firing on all cylinders on.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 26:30

I think that as we continue to grow, I don't think it's gonna be any surprise that certain education, whether it's a degree, there's not I mean, they're, they're a shrinking population. If you look at only construction management, so I think we have to think about what other engineering degrees do we want? How do we think about leadership skills? Can we train for it? And really, from a talent acquisition perspective, how do we continue to make sure we have that world class training and development as we continue to grow?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 27:04

And, what does that look like? A lot of training and development on demand. If we're always waiting only for a class, will we be able to hit all of the training needs that our locations need as we grow around The US? Is it always possible to come back for a training? Like, so I just think about all the different types of training and on demand training and how do we create things from a when I say sustainability, not just, like, from an environmental ESG, but, like, from a sustainable, I need the training, I can get it at that time.

Mel Renfrow: 27:36

I think well, 70% of training is on the job. And I and obviously, we do a good job at it. But what we haven't done is universally captured what those experiences are that we should be having by role and at what time. You know what I mean?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 27:52

Well, and I think I and I think we talk about sustainability. A lot of times I hear in my first talk to this person, which works, but as we continue to grow, if it's talking to one person is the way that communication gets translated or anything, like, that's not that's when I say it's not sustainable. And what I'm talking about of to your point, how do we capture that? How do we make that on demand so you don't have to wait for anything? You have it available to you.

Mel Renfrow: 28:17

Looking ahead, where do you see the HR function moving in three to five years?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 28:23

So when I think about three to five years, I think about growing complexity within compliance. I think about growing complexity within size, and then the business needs. Those three kinda areas that are always at the forefront. And so when I think of HR, I think of how are we going to meet those strategic goals and what do we need to do to leverage ourselves. So how do we can't just only grow linearly, so that's where your digital comes in.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 28:52

That's where you have to think about how can you how do our systems work together of what it looks like. But when I think about where our HR team is gonna be in five years, I think we're gonna build on the strong foundation. We're gonna still keep those, our secret sauce, our core values that I see people walk and live every single day, but be able to serve a larger population.

Jason Hendricks: 29:14

The one thing I would add here would this is where starting with the end in mind will come into play as well. And and so it's not just about, like, where are we at today and how do we continue to support and enhance the play that we're already running, but it's also looking ahead. And she talked about size and complexity and whether that's in or outside of the HR space, but just if we are two x the size, what other skills and expertise positions potentially are we gonna need to help support an organization of that reach? So there's there's certainly a balance of, here's what we need today, but then where are we going and what will we need in the future, and how how do we close that gap in between to best prepare for those needs so we're not playing defense? We're more in an offensive way, being very proactive in in either building or sourcing those skills for the organization.

Mel Renfrow: 30:11

Yeah.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 30:12

One of the things, I tell my kids and my family is and this might sound dramatic, so those everyone's learning to get to know me here, it is dramatic, but work with me, is that if you're not learning, you're dying. And I really believe in that because we have to keep learning new skills, thinking about what that future is going to be. Fun side note, like one time my kids weren't getting along, and I made them research five jobs that will not exist when they graduate from high school. That's how they had to work together to, do me a little PowerPoint presentation because I want them thinking about what that is. If ten years ago, you would have talked about AI, you would have thought about it something out of the movies.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 30:52

If you think about all the different different things, what's gonna happen in five years might be invented in the next year, two, three years. So we have to keep our eye on the future ball and make sure that we're always listening, learning, so that we can be prepared for the future.

Jason Hendricks: 31:09

I think and being flexible enough to, you know, pull certain things in. You know, if you think about just how we have changed under one PCG, and if you think about just the general manager role, you know, where what that size of business used to be a couple of years ago to, you know, what that size of business is today or tomorrow, it's vastly different. And you may have some of the same core skill sets that are needed to be successful in that job, but it's also very different running, you know, a $50,000,000 organization versus a $300,000,000 organization. So how do we best support our people in that journey, so that we don't find ourselves in a in a spot that is not healthy for the individual, not healthy for that local team, certainly not healthy for us as an organization. So just taking a step back and making sure we're looking at it holistically so that our people feel supported at whatever size and complexity we are as a company.

Mel Renfrow: 32:13

Yeah. Because I think one of the things that's made us successful, we say it all the time, are the people and the connection that we have to one another. So how do you scale without losing that? And, I mean, if it was easy, everybody would do it.

Jason Hendricks: 32:29

Right. Well,

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 32:29

and you got another complexity coming in that we have four generations in the workforce now, and we're four years away from Gen Alpha, which is after Gen Z coming into the workforce. So, like, there's all of these, like, interesting future complexities that we can be thinking about and looking towards. And

Jason Hendricks: 32:48

So we've already made it around the entire alphabet? We're back to a again? Yeah.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 32:52

Because it's Gen Alpha so Gen Alpha is twenty ten, and then actually Gen Beta is start is born this year. So if you have a child born in 2025, that child is in out in generation beta. I love it.

Jason Hendricks: 33:06

Look out, folks.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 33:07

But it is. Like, it's so I mean, it's crazy that I the idea that and I'd have to double check it. I'm gonna make, double check it. Believe you. No.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 33:16

No. But, like, I think that we've never had five generations in the workforce before. Like, if you look at it, we've I mean, that we still actively could have boomers all the way to Gen Alpha. So

Mel Renfrow: 33:27

I don't know where I work. I think there's a silent generation person that I mean, where I shop, at my grocery store.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 33:33

There you

Mel Renfrow: 33:34

go. There's someone that works there. I swear he's 95 and he has been for eighteen years. Father time.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 33:41

Hashtag goals.

Mel Renfrow: 33:42

Yeah. Exactly. So, let's go into the personal space. And and this is for both of you. So what is one piece of career advice that has stuck with you?

Mel Renfrow: 33:55

You can think of anything.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 33:57

So for me, I've I've had a lot of different, positions. And if you would have asked me, have you ever thought about this? Or if you would ever would have done would you ever move to Louisiana and done offshore rigs? Have you ever moved to Dubai? Like, probably not a kid growing up in Kansas.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 34:15

So my career advice is when someone approaches you about a job, don't say no, ask why. Because I can tell you, especially being an HR on this side, we've thought about it a lot. Like, oh, this person would be great for this position and here's why. We don't always tell them that. And so the best career advice I always got is don't go, oh, no, I can't do that.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 34:35

Oh, I don't have the skills for that. Oh, that's not me. Just say, help me under like, that's that sounds like an amazing opportunity. Help me understand why you think I'd be the right fit for that. And, I heard that early in my career and really have lived by it and love to share it because it's very true.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 34:52

There's always and because of that, I've had a career that I I mean, I would even, you know, even though people might be taking bets on if the Chiefs will get the three peat this year, I never would have taken a bet that a kid from Central Kansas would have had my career. So but, man, I think the Chiefs will win. I gotta somehow get that into the podcast of Go Chiefs. I

Mel Renfrow: 35:16

don't know. By the time it by the time it airs, we might have the answer.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 35:20

So then we need do we need to, like, record both ways? Like, yay. Chiefs won. Oh, man. Chiefs lost.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 35:24

It's there for the If

Mel Renfrow: 35:26

they lose, we'll just cut this part out of it. I agree. Like it never happened. So how about you, Jason? I'm sure you've heard a nugget or two along your way.

Jason Hendricks: 35:33

Man, I probably would I probably would lean on that you should always be learning, always be growing, and always be accountable for the decisions you make.

Mel Renfrow: 35:47

Yep. Those are good. Mine was, I can't remember who said it, but, whatever whatever you are, be a good one.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 35:57

I like that too.

Mel Renfrow: 35:58

Yeah. So it doesn't matter if you're sweeping floors or flying a plane or whatever it is. Be good at it. So what's something fun or interesting that people might not know about you?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 36:12

I always like, this was the same question I got asked, like, what do I do in my free time? And I'm like, I have four kids. My free time is their activities and things like that. But if I truly have my own, I, I play the organ. You do?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 36:24

Own piano. So, yeah, that's what I do like to jam out. And I the story goes, I started playing for my church growing up.

Mel Renfrow: 36:34

Like a pipe organ?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 36:35

Yeah. Like like church organ. So I started playing that in high school, and it kinda took me through and I've now, like, everywhere I've lived, except for Paris, because Paris had, like, real organists that are phenomenal. I played it wherever I go. So, yeah, we we're the family that sits at home and sings songs, like Christmas carols around.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 36:57

The my mom's playing on the piano. I know Mel's laughing at me here now, but yeah. So

Jason Hendricks: 37:01

So it's like Norman Rockwell?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 37:03

I don't my husband my husband can't really sing. So he, you know, is usually sitting in the back. So I don't know if it's completely Norman Rockwell.

Mel Renfrow: 37:10

But So

Jason Hendricks: 37:10

when you go on so because he can't sing. Yeah. Just give him a tambourine.

Mel Renfrow: 37:14

So when yeah. Give him a tambourine.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 37:16

Triangle. Cowbell.

Mel Renfrow: 37:17

So when you go on car trips, is it let's sing show tunes?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 37:22

Not show tunes. So we have a family Spotify channel. So we're we have a family Spotify channel that anybody can add a song to. So it is insanely eclectic from I I mean, at one point, I had Frozen to eighties rock band for my husband to, like, Green Day for my son. I had musicals.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 37:42

I mean, my oldest daughter's into, like, indie rock. It will take the biggest but we are all singing to all of them. Yes. We are singing all of them. But, I mean, if you're asking my kids and go, oh, are we halfway there?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 37:57

You know how they're all gonna respond.

Mel Renfrow: 37:58

Yeah.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 37:58

There's only one way that you can respond to that. So

Mel Renfrow: 38:02

Very how about you?

Jason Hendricks: 38:03

Is that, like, Bon Jovi living on a prayer?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 38:05

Exactly. They'll I

Jason Hendricks: 38:06

mean, I just wanna make sure.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 38:07

It's a %. Like, you go

Jason Hendricks: 38:09

rock that. But

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 38:09

I mean, I heard. I when they're here for Halloween next year, that's when you can you can just go up to them and be like, oh, are we halfway there? And they will

Jason Hendricks: 38:17

Woah.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 38:17

Bust it.

Jason Hendricks: 38:18

Oh, they're pretty

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 38:20

yeah. They'll all

Mel Renfrow: 38:21

be invested that out at karaoke, I heard, at a branch Yeah. Doing back in Phoenix

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 38:25

or LA. What's your karaoke?

Jason Hendricks: 38:27

It was Phoenix. Phoenix.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 38:28

Is that your karaoke song, Jason?

Jason Hendricks: 38:30

Well, I mean, it was the only karaoke song, so I guess so. But You

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 38:35

don't have a go to?

Jason Hendricks: 38:36

What do you mean only? I don't. I'm not a frequent karaoker or what however you would phrase that, but just know that I'm not a frequent one.

Mel Renfrow: 38:45

This will be harder because people know you a little bit better. What's something that people might not know about you?

Jason Hendricks: 38:50

That I was, yeah, I was sponsored by a skateboard shop and

Mel Renfrow: 38:56

What? Yeah.

Jason Hendricks: 38:57

Yeah. It's called Cheapskate. It was called Cheapskate. So, this was I don't know if you there's some that remember. It those that are in Gen x would remember, but there used to be these stickers like skateboarding is not a crime.

Jason Hendricks: 39:09

Yeah. So that was kind of the the time that I was into skateboarding. And so this was probably you know, you're looking at, like, sixth, seventh, eighth grade sort of deal, maybe fifth grade. But yeah. So I used to ride in skateboards and rode it all around town and That's cool.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 39:27

Were you in competitions or just

Jason Hendricks: 39:29

Yeah. I had some yeah. Local competitions down on Mill Avenue in Tempe and

Mel Renfrow: 39:33

Do you know Tony Hawk?

Jason Hendricks: 39:34

I do not know Tony Hawk.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 39:36

Are there videos of this? That's what I you know.

Jason Hendricks: 39:38

Probably not. We didn't have all of the cool gear that they have today.

Mel Renfrow: 39:42

When was the last time you were on a skateboard?

Jason Hendricks: 39:44

I don't know. I there was I think one of the kids in the cul de sac had one couple years ago or got one for, like, Christmas or something like that. And I can still throw down an ollie.

Mel Renfrow: 39:53

Smoke them?

Jason Hendricks: 39:54

No. I can still throw down an ollie and stuff like that. But, yeah. It's, those are the those were good old days. You just like, I'll be back when the street lights come on, and you just skate all around town.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 40:07

Either we we we we're outside till the cows come home for me because, you know, literally, there's no there's no street lights out in middle of nowhere, Kansas. We just hung out with the cows.

Jason Hendricks: 40:17

So how many times did you guys, like, reenact The Wizard of Oz?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 40:20

The Wizard of Oz? Like

Jason Hendricks: 40:22

Well, I mean, your theater background, right, in the middle I

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 40:25

like big saw arm and Like, the opposite.

Jason Hendricks: 40:27

I'm just

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 40:27

The opposite, actually. Because, like, growing up, nobody wanted to do The Wizard of Oz. It's like, Kansas is so much more than The Wizard of Oz.

Jason Hendricks: 40:35

Yeah. That was probably just that was a

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 40:37

It was. Stereotype. But I will tell you, living overseas, the only thing people know about Kansas is The Wizard of Oz is The Wizard of Oz. %. Like, that's when you said, where are you from?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 40:48

You said Kansas. They didn't know where that was. And so you're like, oh, The Wizard of Oz. Ah, yes. Tornadoes.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 40:54

Yes. Okay. There you go.

Mel Renfrow: 40:55

Okay. I do think it's interesting. When you go overseas and you ask somebody where they're from, they say their country. But people from The United States don't say The States. They say Kansas or the city they're from and some But

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 41:09

but I agree with you because I used to just say The US. Yeah. And then they'd be like, where in The US? Yeah. And then I know we're we're podcast here, so you can't see it.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 41:17

So I'd like no one knows where Kansas is. They think you're from LA or New York. And they're like, no. I'm not from LA or New York. And because I was in oil and gas, they all knew where Texas was.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 41:26

So I go Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and, like, work my and they're oh, and they'd all nod. But, yeah, no one knew where Kansas was. I didn't even try, like, where I'm actually from, like a city or or, like, the town I'm from because no.

Mel Renfrow: 41:38

Like, what what is the town you're from?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 41:40

It's Wilson. How many people? 700.

Mel Renfrow: 41:44

How many people in your graduating

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 41:46

class? 17.

Mel Renfrow: 41:47

Were you in the top 10% of your graduating class?

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 41:51

Well, that it's like actually a sore spot because that's 1.7, and I was number two.

Mel Renfrow: 41:59

So there could be only one literally.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 42:01

Exactly.

Mel Renfrow: 42:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Well, thank you for coming.

Mel Renfrow: 42:05

Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't touch on?

Jason Hendricks: 42:09

I I wasn't number two or number one, so

Mel Renfrow: 42:12

Were you in the top 10 person?

Jason Hendricks: 42:14

I don't think I was.

Mel Renfrow: 42:15

How many people were in your class?

Jason Hendricks: 42:16

500.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 42:18

Okay. What number do you remember?

Jason Hendricks: 42:21

I I don't. At that point in time, that wasn't

Mel Renfrow: 42:23

You whipped that was a number really quickly earlier.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 42:25

That was I think you secretly

Mel Renfrow: 42:27

know that.

Jason Hendricks: 42:27

At that point in time, the only stats that I cared about was batting average, right, on base percentage. It was anything statistical about baseball. So that was

Mel Renfrow: 42:36

That's fair.

Jason Hendricks: 42:37

All consuming.

Mel Renfrow: 42:39

Very fair. Okay. Well, thanks for coming in. Awesome. Thank you so much for having us.

Jason Hendricks: 42:44

Yeah. Thanks.

MaryElizabeth Lackey: 42:45

Thanks, Jason, for the warm welcome and for the whole team. Everyone's been really great. Really appreciate it.