Feminist Founders Subscriber-Only Podcast

Welcome to the Feminist Founders audio series event. This is a bonus for paid subscribers of the Feminist Founders newsletter. If you're here, thank you so much for your support. I'm excited to bring you this series, featuring incredible thought leaders who will share insights about doing business differently in a way that honors equity and social justice. I hope you learn a lot from this. Let's dig in.
Becky Mollenkamp: Hey there, so nice to be back in your ears with another incredible interview, this time with Caroline Sumlin, the author of We'll All Be Free. She's also a speaker and a mom. You're going to hear about all of that, about her writing and her book, and she's also on Substack. I hope you'll subscribe to her Substack, linked in the show notes. It’s by the same name as her book, We'll All Be Free. Today, we’re talking about her book and about writing a book. We discuss what her writing practice looks like, and I think it's going to be very interesting for people who are also trying to write—maybe a book, a Substack newsletter, or other content—while juggling something else, like in Caroline's case, parenting. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Caroline Sumlin.
Becky Mollenkamp: Hi, Caroline. I am so grateful to you for doing this. You’re someone who's a guest on Season 3 of the podcast, which will be coming out this fall. We talk a lot about your writing there, but mostly in that interview, we focus more on the content of your writing and the topics you're covering. I thought it’d be interesting here to talk about your practice of writing. Can you start by telling me a little about your journey to becoming a professional writer? I know your background was in journalism, then you kind of went off that path, and now you’re on your way to self-publishing—and possibly traditional publishing as well, if I'm not mistaken. I’d love to hear about how you found your way into being a professional and published author.
Caroline Sumlin: My path to becoming a professional writer was pretty non-traditional. I'm not self-published; the one book that I have written is traditionally published. It came about from my continuous writing online via social media and articles, which led to me getting discovered, for lack of a better word, by an agent who reached out to me. She thought I should write a book. At first, I didn’t believe she was real—I thought it was a scam, like those offers to buy a program and self-publish. But no, she was an actual agent whose job was to get me a traditional book deal. Once I realized she was legit, we began working on the proposal and went through the process of getting a book deal, which led to the book I have today. I hope it will lead to a second and third book as well.
I have a degree in journalism, and writing has always been something I’ve done. I’ve been writing for years. I’ve always kept some sort of blog, and I’ve always practiced writing. Deep down, I always dreamed of becoming a published author, though I didn’t know when or how it would happen. I didn’t expect it to happen the way it did or as soon as it did, but I’ve been writing since I was 18 or 19 years old—keeping a blog, writing for journalism classes, and doing internships. I wrote for the local news station I interned with here in DC, covering pieces for them. I kept a number of blogs over the years, focusing on various niches like lifestyle and motherhood, and I always focused more on writing than anything else on social media. My writing has always been what captured my audience and connected me to my research. I just kept writing, and eventually, an agent reached out to me. Now, I guess I can call myself a professional writer. It’s hard for me to believe it because now that the book is no longer in launch mode, I feel like my writing has gone back to hobby writing. I'm trying to remind myself that I’m still a professional author and writer, and hopefully, book deal number two will be here soon.
Becky Mollenkamp: Take me back to the time you were writing the book. What did your writing habit and practice look like when you had a specific, big goal you were working towards? Later, I’d like to hear how your writing practice might be different now, as you mentioned you're in a place of hobby writing, though I might disagree with that terminology. But for now, let's start with how your writing practice and habits were during the process of writing the book.
Caroline Sumlin: While I was writing my book, my writing practices were probably less conventional than what one might do if they were a full-time writer. I'm not a full-time writer; I homeschool and have my kids with me most of the time. So, I had to find ways to get into the zone for writing at times when I felt tired—whether that was towards the end of the day or on weekends. I tried to write in the mornings, but that didn’t often work well. When I did write in the evening or on weekends, I knew I had to take advantage of the time I had because it was limited.
A couple of things helped me. First, I always feel most confident in my writing when I’ve done a lot of research. When I’m struggling to formulate thoughts and ideas, I go back to the research drawing board. I either review my research or add to it. Research is a really big part of my writing process; it helps me organize my thoughts. I kept all my research on my iPad and had it organized so I could track and utilize it throughout writing my book. It kept me focused and on task.
Second, to get my brain and emotional and mental state ready to write, I always started with prayer. I would have some sort of jazz music in the background, something I couldn’t sing to, or lo-fi music. I still do that now. That helped me turn off distractions like social media and get into a zone. Sometimes I’d have tennis on in the background too because tennis is my favorite thing ever, and it helped me focus as well.
Third, I allowed myself to write without over-editing. I know it’s hard—you want to edit as you go—but I would write without worrying about how it sounded, then come back and read sections out loud. After writing a few paragraphs or a section—say, a chapter—I would read everything I had written out loud to ensure it flowed. It was difficult not to want to edit while doing this, but I’d make small edits if I had new ideas. Reading aloud what I’d written helped me get back into the flow and the right state of mind as I continued writing.
Finally, when I finished a section, like the end of a chapter, I’d reread the entire section out loud several times to find redundancies and polish the writing. I’d say it was a combination of these things. I didn’t have a lot of time to develop a big writing ritual every time I sat down, so I had to make use of my time—put on my music, start reading out loud, use my research, and allow myself to write without worrying too much about how it sounded. When I reached a point of finality in a section, I’d go back and refine it, making it sound more eloquent and polished.
Becky Mollenkamp: How is it different creating and sustaining a writing practice when it's not for a specific project or a real deadline driven project beyond your own deadlines, something like writing a book for an editor with a publisher that's expecting it by a certain time. That's obviously in those moments for many of us anyway, that's when it becomes easier to maintain a writing practice because there is that looming deadline. But when you're writing for your substack or when you're writing pieces to try and get published in print and other places or online in other places, but that aren't specifically deadline driven. Because you're, and I think if I'm not mistaken, that's kind of the space you're in now. So what does your writing practice look like in these times, and how do you stay motivated when you don't have that deadline or that big exciting project like a book that you're working on?
Caroline Sumlin: The type of writing I do can make it difficult to stay motivated in my writing practice for various reasons. Number one, I don't write full-time, so sometimes days go by before I can write again. What I may have planned to write about, especially when writing articles and trying to stay current with what readers are thinking and needing at the time—along with what I’m thinking and needing—can change daily. While I do have a list of topics and articles to pull from or deadlines I'd like to meet, I often find that by the time I can finally write and think clearly, the topics I planned to write about may no longer fit my mood or the space I feel I need to write from. So, my writing often changes depending on how I feel at the moment.
Usually, I aim to write four articles per month, but realistically, I’m only able to complete maybe two of those. When I’m in the middle of writing an article and making progress with it, it becomes easier to pick it back up every time I sit down to write. But if I'm trying to squeeze in writing and I'm looking at my list of topics versus how I’m feeling in the moment, they often clash, making it more difficult. Sometimes, it means realizing I can’t force anything—I don’t want to write just to write. I don’t want my writing to feel forced.
I've allowed myself to accept that sometimes I just won't be able to keep up with the pace of other writers who constantly pump out new content that always sounds perfect. That’s just not realistic for me, and I’m not going to force it. Sometimes, that means accepting that it’s not my day or even my week to get much writing done and allowing my body and mind to flow, even when it feels uncomfortable, knowing that the flow will come back. Other times, it means looking at what I planned to write and realizing I have something else to say or that the mood has shifted. I try to maintain consistency that works for me, understanding that consistency will look different every day, week, and month because I'm in a different position than many of my fellow writers.
Becky Mollenkamp: I would love it if you could get a little more granular about what your writing practice actually looks like. You're homeschooling and very much involved in your children's lives—you have young children, you're home with them, and you're still trying to write. You talked a bit more high-level about how things feel and look different, but on a day-to-day level, what does your writing practice actually look like now? How do you make it work? How do you fit it in around all the other things you have going on? How many hours are you dedicating to it? How do you manage that while also having kids either present or trying to do it when they're not around? If you could give us more details, that would be amazing.
Caroline Sumlin: I feel like my writing process isn’t super professional or anything like that. Right now, in the season I'm in, it's all about learning not to force it. There are two ways to look at it. If I know I have something specific to write, I’ll zoom out a little bit and then zoom back in.
Usually, at the beginning of the month, I look at a brain dump of topics I’ve made—a list of article topics that can also turn into Instagram posts, Reels, Threads, etc. I haven’t done this in over a month and a half because I’ve been so busy, but normally, at the beginning of the month, I’ll look at that list and decide which topics I want to cover. Sometimes, I try to plan two months out, but it never works that way, so I’ve learned to take it a month at a time. Even then, I’m often too ambitious, thinking I can write four articles in a month, but life happens, and I’m lucky if I get two out. If I can get two major articles out in one month, I feel like I haven’t failed.
I’ll look at my list of brainstormed articles and decide which one makes sense based on how people are feeling online or where we are in the calendar. For example, during back-to-school time, I might focus more on homeschool content. In November, for National Adoption Awareness Month, I center my content around that. Sometimes, I choose topics based on what I’m going through in life or what’s on my mind. But there are many days when I feel blank because I'm so focused on taking care of my children and homeschooling. On those days, I’m just thinking about making food, stopping the screaming, and handling everyday tasks. Sometimes, ideas come to me while I’m doing those things, and I’ll jot them down in a reminder on my phone or text them to myself.
At the beginning of the month, I assign topics to each week, trying to base my content around that. For example, if I decide to write about individualism and white supremacy culture in the first week of August, I know that’s the article topic for the week. I usually aim to publish midweek, though sometimes it doesn’t happen until Thursday or Friday, depending on how long it takes and what’s going on in my life. Once I have the topic, I start with my research, pulling up what I’ve already done and what I’ve written in my book. I start a new blank page on my iPad and brainstorm ideas, jotting down an outline of how I want the article to flow. I don’t get too caught up in the structure, as it often evolves as I write, but I do best when I have a solid collection of research. I typically spend a day before I start writing, gathering research, pulling up saved articles, grabbing books off my shelf, and jotting down quotes, research stats, or other relevant information. Then I take 2-3 days to put the article together, which can vary depending on how much time I have for each work session—sometimes it’s an hour, sometimes 45 minutes, and other times it’s 2.5 hours. It’s unpredictable, which is why sometimes an article I plan to publish one week doesn’t come out until the next.
I like to make sure my writing is of quality, especially when it’s published work like a Substack article or blog post. Even if it’s self-published, it’s still findable by anyone who might consider my writing for something. So I take the time to ensure it’s well done. Often, while I’m writing, little quotes will emerge that I can use for Threads, Instagram posts, or other content. If an article is taking a while, I’ll pull a quote and post it on Threads or my page, which helps buy me some time and eases the anxiety I feel if I haven’t posted in a while.
There’s also a lot of pressure to keep up with the current climate when writing about culture, justice, and society. When the current climate is moving fast and everyone is responding immediately, it can feel overwhelming to keep up—especially when I’m just trying to wipe jam off someone’s face. I’m currently in a season of figuring out what that looks like for me and realizing that maybe I can't always keep up. I’m finding my lane, understanding that some weeks I’m really inspired and have a lot to say, and other weeks I’m just not feeling it. Even when I pull up my list of things to write about, nothing clicks. In those moments, I remind myself that I’m not really getting paid for this, so I can take a step back. If I were getting paid, it might be different, but I’d probably also feel more motivated.
Becky Mollenkamp: I think so many people can relate to the struggles of trying to do the things we want to do and love to do while we're in the throes of parenting young children. So thank you for sharing what it looks like for you. I'm wondering if you can finish by talking about the mental part of that. How have you had to shift your thinking about your writing? How have you had to rethink what your professional life and writing life look like for now, and what you're hoping it will maybe someday look like again? I think that can be really hard for folks when they’re managing, trying to write—whether it’s around having children or even working a 9 to 5 and trying to fit it in. For those people for whom writing is not their primary gig but they want it to be, or maybe it has been and it’s had to take a back seat, I think the mental part of that can be really challenging. So, what’s the reality of that for you—how do you manage your feelings about the shift in how much you can write, when you can write, and also the hope for what it might become later?
Caroline Sumlin: I've been struggling a lot mentally with figuring out my writing career because I thought my book was going to be the birth of a steadfast career, one with constant opportunities coming my way because of this amazing book I wrote. I thought I was going to look like everyone else who has recently written a book and found at least a decent amount of success from its publication and built consistent momentum. But every time I look around at the people I compare myself to, I’m the only one doing this with children. I’m the only one doing this as a full-time homeschooling parent. So I keep thinking I should look like X, Y, and Z, but I can’t because I don’t have the luxury of making this my full-time thing. And I don’t know that I ever will.
How am I handling that? Well, not well. I don’t have a profound answer because I’m in the thick of figuring it out, having many low days where I don’t even want to look at the book I wrote. I don’t even like going online. There are days when my brain doesn’t seem to formulate words, thoughts, or sentences, and I’m just concerned that this will never be. It’s hard because I want to be the person who sets goals, thinking that if you just set goals and have a plan, it’ll come true. But as depressing as it sounds, I do feel like motherhood—not just motherhood, because life can be difficult and ambiguous for everyone—but specifically, motherhood robs you of any ability to say, “I want things to look like this,” or even, “I know it can look like that later.”
I’m kind of at a point where I don’t know if that’s true, and I don’t even want to tell myself it will be because I’ve told myself so many times, “This will be the time,” and, “By the time this happens, this will happen,” and it doesn’t. You really can’t predict—you don’t know what kind of needs your children will have or what life will throw your way. So right now, I’m just taking it a day at a time, and that’s all I can do. As much as I’d love to be a full-time writer, I’m at a point where I’m considering whether there’s a way to go back to work, homeschool, and write. I don’t know what that would look like, and there are so many things behind those decisions.
The hardest thing for me is that I wanted a big career. I wanted the thing I did for a living to be my primary focus, with my family and children not being second but not being my everything. I wanted it to be a good 50/50. I didn’t expect to homeschool or spend all day, every day, with my children beyond their toddler years. We are beyond toddler years at this point, and they’re still here—they haven’t gone anywhere, and they’re not going anywhere because we keep landing on this decision that, for now, this is what is best for them. As a result, it requires me to completely sacrifice my mind, body, and soul to give them this education. I used to be the kind of mom who said, “I’ll never let that happen to me; I’ll always put myself first,” but when you decide to homeschool, you literally can’t when they’re with you all the time.
So, as long as they are my primary gig, I don’t see how I could even think about the future of what writing could look like for me. Sure, I hope one day to write another book, but I also never imagined I’d write the first book—the agent came to me, and it just fell into place. But right now, nothing’s falling into place. My agent doesn’t want to pursue a second book because I can’t sell the first one, and I can’t sell the first book because I’m so stuck with my kids that I can’t make the content or figure out how to get in the door through other means to sell it. So, I don’t know at this point. I just have no idea where this is going.
The only way I can get through how depressing it feels is to, in a way, give up. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but I mean to give up on expectations, to give up on it as a hope, and just go back to writing for the sake of enjoyment. I’m only doing what I want to do—not what I feel like I have to do. I’m not going to focus on selling a bunch of books, numbers, or strategy. I’m just going to do it and take it a day at a time. There will be days where I can produce really great articles with lots of traction, and other days where I do nothing. Maybe one day I’ll be able to figure out a plan. I hope so. I’d love to figure out a way to make more money or become a better-paid speaker, even if it’s just one paid speaking gig a month or even once every other month—I’d take it at this point. Slowly but surely, I’ll chip away at those things.
But I don’t have this overall big picture of, “This is what I want life to look like in five years or ten years, and this is what I hope it will be after the fact.” The truth is, you don’t stop being a mother, and you don’t know what your kids will need in five years—you don’t know what they’ll need tomorrow. So who am I to say, “This is the season of my life with young kids, but then it’s going to be like this”? No, I really don’t know that. I really can’t plan for that. All I can do is try to make sure I have pockets in my day, every day, where I do a few things for me, and part of that is writing. Part of that is saying, “Okay, just a couple of hours every day or at least a couple of days a week, I’m going to write, I’m going to do this article, I’m going to make this content, and I’m going to put it out there, and I’m just going to keep chipping away at it.” I don’t know what else to do, but I know I like it, so for some reason, I’m going to keep going. It feels a little insane, and on other days, I’ll do a few things that make me feel good—whether it’s washing my hair, putting on makeup, playing tennis, or whatever—and I’ll just hope that those little outside things are enough to sustain me.
That might sound really depressing, but that’s literally all I have right now. I’ve kind of surrendered to the idea that this may never be the career I thought it was going to be, and I have to be okay with that.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thank you so much for participating in this and for your amazing, thoughtful answers. I'd love to finish off by having you tell people where they can learn more. Obviously, there's your Substack—we’ll link to that in the show notes—but anywhere else they can follow you or learn more from you would be great.
Caroline Sumlin: Yeah, you can follow me at CarolineJSumlin on Instagram and Threads as well. My website is CarolineJSumlin.com. That has all my information about my work, my mission, my book, and how to hire me to speak at an event, conference, or workshop. If you’d like to email me, you can reach me at hello@carolinejsumlin.com. And like you said, there’s my Substack as well. Thank you so much.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thanks again to Caroline. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. Be sure to go and subscribe to her newsletter, We’ll All Be Free, linked in the show notes, and go buy her book by the same name, We'll All Be Free. It’s an incredible book. And I thank her and I thank you for being part of this series, and I’ll be back with another wonderful interview for you tomorrow.