Feminist Founders Subscriber-Only Podcast

Welcome to the Feminist Founders audio series event. This is a bonus for paid subscribers of the feminist Founders's newsletter. So if you're here, thank you so much for your support. I am so excited to bring to you in this series, some incredible thought leaders who are going to share insights about doing business differently in a way that honors equity and social justice. I hope that you learned so much from this. Let's dig in.

Becky Mollenkamp: Welcome back. I am so excited today to introduce you to goddess Erica, if you don't already know her. I love her so much. I've had the absolute pleasure and honor of getting to know her in the last few months, and every time I'm in space with her I feel such a wonderful calm and joy. She's just got the most beautiful presence and we're talking today about something that's really important to her and to me, which is pleasure. Her work is really centered around pleasure and specifically around sex, but pleasure in all ways, and we're talking about that pleasure in all the ways that pleasure can show up and how transformative it can be and also why it is so important, most especially for women and even more especially for women who hold other marginalized identities to get in touch with and hold space for and honor their pleasure. And so it's such a healing and wonderful conversation and I certainly hope you'll take time to get to know Goddess Erica. Beyond this conversation and visit her website at yesgoddesserica.com or the other ways that she'll tell you at the end of the episode to learn more about her. She's amazing. So I hope you enjoy.
Becky Mollenkamp: Goddess Erica, thank you for being part of this. I am really excited to talk about pleasure. I mean, it sounds pleasurable, and I think all of us love pleasure, even if we don't get enough of it, which we will talk about the why and what of that in a little bit, but let's start by talking about how you define pleasure and why you think it's so important.
Goddess Erica: Thank you, first of all, for allowing me space to take my time with this question. The last couple of days, it's been a little difficult for me to personally connect with pleasure just from stress from work and when it's when you're not connecting to pleasure, it's actually kind of hard to talk about, so I wanted to begin by saying that the first thing that we should consider about pleasure is that it actually is quite fleeting and part of the reason for that is that we live in a world that's designed to extract as much from us and our bodies as possible with as little to give in return to us as possible. And in this world, pleasure can feel like a luxury because of this, but no matter how fleeting it may feel, pleasure is actually a human right. Pleasure is freedom, and when you think of all the pleasant moments that you've ever experienced, and you think about the unifying feature of all of those memories. You'll find that the most common characteristic across each of them is a feeling of release and to be released is to be set free. And that is why pleasure is so important because it's not something that is indulgent or unnecessary. I would actually argue that pleasure is a requirement for our survival. When engaged with responsibly, pleasure acts as a signal to tell us that we're on the right path. And without it, we are directionless and possibly even at risk of being misguided for someone or something else's game.
Becky Mollenkamp: I love that response. I love the idea of pleasure as freedom and revolutionary. I think there's so much inside of that, and I want to talk about how to get there, but before we do, I wanna make sure that we also are understanding pleasure in the same way because I think that word can mean different things for different people. And I wonder when you talk about pleasure, how you're defining it and what are the kinds of things that fall into pleasure and the way that we're talking about it is this revolutionary or freedom, liberatory kind of act.
Goddess Erica: Something that you said that stuck with me, which was that pleasure can mean different things for different people, and that is absolutely positively true, because pleasure is subjective. I said it was fleeting, and it is, and I'll, I'll kind of get into that as well. But let's just talk about first why pleasure, it means different things for different people and in order to kind of ground ourselves in, you know, a line of thinking that I think we can all get behind, which is, you know, maybe just taking a little bit of a scientific approach to things and before we get into the fluffy feelings and the, the woo woo of it all, which I, I love to spend time in that space, but everything is connected, including the, the fluffy woo woo and the science and the the logic and all of that. And so here's what I want to do. Here's how I want to start. I want to start by reading Webster's Dictionary definition of pleasure. And I, again, I wanted to do this because I wanna kind of take a really regimented approach to how it kind of goes from science to, to feelings and to subjectivity. So Webster's definition for pleasure is number one, desire or inclination, and I think that this is actually kind of an older way of using the term pleasure, the example that they use is a William Shakespeare quote. So if that gives you any indication, and it says wait upon his pleasure and the idea of pleasure being something that is a bit of a motivator. It's something I also want to put a pen into. But let's talk about the other ways of defining pleasure that I think we're all more familiar with, which is number 2 says that it is a state of gratification. Number 3 is broken into two parts. 3A is sensual gratification, 3B is frivolous amusement, which I want to talk about also, and number 4 is a source of delight or joy. And from the Webster's Dictionary definitions. We can see that, again, there are a lot of different ways, entry points for us to access pleasure. And if we take that down further another level, we can talk about the chemicals that our bodies produce that actually create pleasurable feelings within us, and the way those chemicals are triggered and released in our bodies are caused by different things that we experience to do, observe, become part of. And so those pleasure chemicals are dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin and endorphins.And so if you take a look at the way that dopamine works. Dopamine is a reward chemical so that sets us up very nicely with 2, a state of gratification in Webster's definition. Let's see, oxytocin is the love chemical. I love that talking about oxytocin, especially when it comes to interpersonal connection, oxytocin is something that you feel from hugs and physical contact and affection and things like that. And so I think that that could be a source of joy, which is the number 4 definition, under Webster's and if we think about serotonin. I'm trying to keep track of all the chemicals, if we think about serotonin, that is something that is like a gratification, a kind of sensual chemical. So that would be 3A, which is the gratification hormone. And then the last one is endorphins and that was the one that I really want to talk about as well, which is this idea of frivolous amusement, endorphins are things like after or playing games or, you know, things that feel lighthearted and easy or things that we tend to set aside and save for when we've earned the ice cream or we've earned the, you know, the, the reward it endorphin feels like a reward. And so I think that when we think about the, the entry points for the pleasure chemicals and how they line up to the, the dictionary definition of a pleasure, which you see is that pleasure is accessible and everything, and that actually lines up really nicely with the platform that I've created for my work, which is orgasmic life, and essentially the crux of orgasmic life is that you can find pleasure. And all of the moments, even in the difficult moments because even in the difficult moments, we can find little points of, of pleasure, little things that release those chemicals into our bodies. So, a really great example is when someone is in labor, and the sensations are intense and the, you know, it feels like it's too much, having physical contact with the people who support us feeling loved, feeling supported, that can feel pleasurable even in moments of stress and, you know, things like completing tasks or doing something satisfying. That is a dopamine thing. And so you can feel pleasure from cleaning your house. You can feel a mood elevation from going for a run or meditating, you can feel pleasure from watching a comedy show or laughing with friends. Or doing something that amuses you. And so pleasure is, I think, the sources of pleasure and the ways that we define pleasure are really just based on the entry points that we are allowing ourselves to access those pleasure chemicals. There's, there's this really beautiful connection between like the science and the, the emotional component of, of pleasure. And when we start to recognize that connection. We can see how we can intentionally and purposefully infused pleasure into our everyday experiences based on what works best for us.
Becky Mollenkamp: OK, pleasure from cleaning the house, I'm not so sure. I'm just kidding. I just don't enjoy that, but I think when you talk about the hormones related to pleasure, it becomes really clear in how our body is built for pleasure. And then that makes it feel like you were saying, not at all indulgent or frivolous, but it does feel like this requirement for survival because our body, our body is made for it. These hormones that we need to survive are dependent in many ways on pleasure. And I love that wider definition and understanding of pleasure with all these different entry points because it helps make it clear that pleasure isn't just orgasms and spa dates because I feel like that's where that term gets used a lot and where many of us develop an understanding of it. So thank you for sharing all of that. For people that are still stuck in that place of feeling the guilt around pleasure or making time for it, prioritizing it. I think everything you shared about hormones is helpful, but is there anything else that you find that helps people be able to release some of that guilt and move into a place of allowing themselves to have more pleasure?
Goddess Erica: That is a really great question. So for people who have difficulty accessing pleasure because of guilt, my suggestion is going to sound strange, but stick with me here. For people who have a sense of guilt around accessing pleasure for making time for pleasure, a suggestion that I have for them is to say no more often. Because usually those are people who tend to be in very outwardly pleasing roles where they are checking into other people's needs, other people's expectations, other people's ideas of what it means and looks like for them to experience and embody pleasure, and with that, that means that they often end up shouldering things that they don't really want to do. And so instead of going on a spa day or treating yourself with a snack or buying that new outfit that you saw on, you know, some IG ad or whatever, instead of doing those things, just say no. The next time you don't feel it within your body to say yes because there's so many things that we feel obligated towards that we don't even check in with our bodies to confirm if that is actually what we want to do. And oftentimes when we do that extra step of checking in with our bodies and we take the additional step of saying no to the things that aren't sitting right with us, that we can gracefully back our way out of. We find pleasure just in the satisfaction of having stood up for ourselves and having accessed a true place within our own desires and met that desire, honestly.
Becky Mllenkamp: Jeez, thanks for calling me out about buying everything I see on Instagram ads. For me, it's actually TikTok, but anyway, I digress. I love reframing no, as a form of pleasure, saying no is a form of pleasure, and that whole part of what you talked about makes me think about “The Uses of the Erotic” from Audre Lorde, which I was first introduced to in Adrian Marie Brown's book, “Pleasure Activism,” which obviously seems like a really good fit for this, and I think that book and Audre Lorde's essay are really powerful resources as we talk about pleasure, so I will link to both of those for our listeners, but in “Uses of the Erotic,” Lorde talks about the erotic, which I, I think she means pleasure and I see it as talking about pleasure, as your talking about it now, not just that physical sensation, but something more profound, and she says, this is a quote from her, “The erotic is a measure between the beginnings of our sense of self and the chaos and the chaos of our strongest feelings. It is an internal sense of satisfaction to which once we have experienced, we know we can aspire for having experienced the fullness of this depth of feeling and recognizing its power in honor and self-respect we can require no less of ourselves.” And that with what you said makes me want to ask you this, what role do you see pleasure having in personal liberation, decolonization, self-discovery, self-acceptance? How does pleasure factor into that whole experience of liberating ourselves?
Goddess Erica: Oh, trust me, I was calling myself out when I was mentioning the Instagram ads where the algorithm has my buying habits and a chokehold. But back to the topic, the, I love that you brought up Adrian Marie Brown and Audre Lorde, and the, the, the politics behind Pleasure. And I think that the answer to your question actually lies very firmly in the quote that you read from Audre Lorde. And I also just want to point out that the, the name of the, the essay uses of the erotic, the erotic as power. And, you know, just a fine point on the fact that in leveraging and connecting to erotic and two arrows and these really mindful self-reflective intent intentional ways that we are connecting more closely and more intentionally to ourselves. So the role that pleasure has and personal liberation and decolonization and self-discovery.
And self-acceptance is that it is a necessary and incredibly necessary ingredient in all of those things, because pleasure is the most honest litmus of our access to our, our truest selves. And when we are feeling pleasure, when we are feeling pleasure that is coming from a place that is not informed by other people's ideas of who we should be, how we should behave, how we should show up, how we should express our desire pleasure for ourselves, then we get closer to, to our truths and, and that feels really, really good. As a matter of fact, there's another quote from the uses of erotic that I think actually kind of ties together. My answer to your question that you asked earlier, which was my definition of pleasure, and I said that it was something that is required for our survival. And that it helps us to understand when, or to help, it helps us to avoid being misguided by other people's ideas or misguided to work in service of something that is not in service of us. And so the quote is this. And this is a quote from the uses of erotic by Audre Lorde, and it is, we have been raised to fear the yes within ourselves. Our deepest cravings. For the demands of our released expectations lead us inevitably into actions which will help bring our lives into accordance with our needs, our knowledge, and our desires. And the fear of our deepest cravings keep them, keeps them suspect, keeps us docile and loyal and obedient and leads us to settle for or accept many facets of our oppression as women. And so, in that, we see that the pleasure is a tool for liberation on all of these fronts and all of these different ways, because when we embrace the nose, the no of no, I am not going to show up that way, or no, I'm not going to accept this thing or no, I'm not going to play this role that that doesn't suit me. When we say no, what we're actually doing is saying yes to ourselves, saying yes to our truths, is saying yes to the pleasure that exists within ourselves that is always pinging back to us, the the answers that we're seeking. Pleasure is a guidepost and when we no longer fear the pleasure that we're seeking when we finally began to embrace it and ways that are healthy and and affirming, then we begin to get closer, not only to liberation, but to a spiritual connection to ourselves that I think many of us who are seeing the expectations of others may find elusive. I also want to say one last thing about pleasure. Pleasure is the most powerful tool that we have. And our, at our disposal. And I'll say that again. Pleasure is the most powerful tool that we have at our disposal. And when we're talking about personal liberation when we're talking about decolonization, we're talking about self-discovery and self-acceptance. All of those things hinge upon having a an honest connection to pleasure. When we take a look at self-acceptance. We realize that when we are denying ourselves or we are quietly denigrating ourselves for not being or not being enough or not doing enough or whatever it is, for doing too much, for doing the most. Whatever we are judging and negatively self-talking to ourselves about that is, that never feels good. So clearly pleasure lies in the act of forgiving ourselves, of unconditionally loving ourselves, of accepting ourselves. And when we do those things naturally, we begin to get closer to self-discovery. Naturally, we began to fight against the systems of oppression that hold us back. We began to decolonize because we can no longer stand and allow things that we accepted previously to exist because it no longer feels good. When we are unmasking it's such a tumultuous experience because we are now fighting against the outside expectations of who and what we are allowed to be and the internal truth of who and what we are.
Becky Mollenkamp: Oh, this has been so helpful and inspiring, and really it's felt like a lovely sermon on the power and importance of pleasure. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Goddess Erica, to wrap up, I was hoping that you would share either another piece of advice or maybe a journaling prompt or a thought exercise or something that could help those who want to tap into pleasure as a tool of self-discovery and liberation. People who are inspired by what you've shared and kind of just want that next thing to do.
Goddess Erica: So, I would like to suggest to your audience that we practice in our day to day lives and moments of quietness and moments of mundanity and moments of of stress or when we just need to bring ourselves back into our bodies. This is a really beautiful noticing exercise that's usually used for managing anxiety, but I find it a wonderful way to connect with pleasure as well. And so we count down from 5 and we noticed 5 things that we see, 4 things that we hear, 3 things that feel pleasurable. And even if that is when you're washing the dishes or walking the dog or working on an assignment or in the middle of a stressful moment in the middle of labor, in the middle of a pleasurable moment, just taking a moment to notice the 3 things that feel pleasurable, and it, in some situations it may be a little bit more difficult to find those things, but they're always there. So this is the really important part. 3 things that feel pleasurable to you in this moment, then you should notice 2 things that you smell, and then finally notice 1 thing that you need or want right now. And when we practice this exercise, what we do, like I said, is find ourselves, becoming a bit more grounded in our bodies and able to navigate and see clearly the environment and the space and the things that we are, in the area that we are occupying both physically and mentally and energetically.
Becky Mollenkamp: I love the 54321 exercise. I use it with my son to help him calm anxiety. And I love the idea of the way you've sort of reframed it from how I have traditionally done it and helping me bring more awareness to pleasure. So thank you for that and thank you for everything you've shared. It's been beautiful. I'm really thrilled and honored that you did this, and before you go, I just want to ask one last thing, which is where can people find you? What is the goodness you're putting out in the world that they can benefit from? Just let people know how they might be able to work with you or how they can connect with you.
Goddess Erica: Thank you again, Becky. Yes, where I can be reached and how people can find me is you can find me at yesGoddessErica.com and right now, the services that I'm offering include 1-to-1 coaching for orgasmic life, which is essentially what we do is we look at the version of yourself that you have always wanted to be, but maybe have silenced or pushed aside or tamped down a little bit because of wanting to fit in or to be received a certain way. I also offer orgasmic birth training, which is an opportunity for expecting people to really empower themselves and prepare themselves for a birth experience that isn't just navigating pain. But also calling into attention the pleasure that can be felt in one of the most harrowing experiences that many of us have, but that where there is pleasure to be found when you are prepared and supported and honored and the truth of your being. So, yes, thank you again. If anyone wants to reach me, I can be found at YesGoddessErica.com.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thank you so much to Goddess Erica. I hope you can see why I find her to be so incredibly wonderful, just such brilliance and thank you, thank you, thank you. I hope you enjoyed learning about what she had to share about pleasure, and that you will give yourself and allow for more pleasure in your life because of it, because that would be incredible and make me and Goddess Erica feel amazing. Thank you again for being a paid subscriber, for listening to this episode, potentially for sharing about this incredible series with other folks so that they can upgrade to paid and enjoy it as well. And thank you so much for your time. I will be back with another incredible conversation tomorrow.