Feminist Founders Subscriber-Only Podcast

Welcome to the Feminist Founders audio series event. This is a bonus for paid subscribers of the Feminist Founders newsletter. So if you're here, thank you so much for your support. I'm so excited to bring you this series, featuring incredible thought leaders who will share insights about doing business differently in a way that honors equity and social justice. I hope you learn a lot from this. Let's dig in.
Becky Mollenkamp: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the very first episode of what will be many in this audio series for paid subscribers of the newsletter. I'm so excited to have you here and for you to listen to these incredible interviews with some amazing thought leaders. First up today is Chrissy King. She is the author of The Body Liberation Project, and she has a Substack by a similar name, The Liberation Collective. I'll link to both of those in the show notes so that you can learn more about her.
Chrissy is an anti-racism, DEI, and wellness speaker. She has a lot of amazing thoughts about body liberation. We talk about what that means, how to go about it, and what's the benefit? What's the promise? What can change when we liberate ourselves in this way. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. I'm so thankful for Chrissy participating and kicking off this wonderful event. There will be many more episodes coming soon, but I hope you enjoy this one.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thank you for doing this, Chrissy. To get started, I always like getting to a place of shared understanding around vocabulary and definitions as a foundation. So I'm hoping we can start by having you explain what liberation means to you because I know it may mean different things to different people. So, what does that word or concept of liberation mean to you?
Chrissy King: When I'm talking about liberation, for me, liberation is freedom, right? Freedom to exist, free from harm, free from discrimination, free from systems of oppression. One of the quotes or definitions I really like is by Tina Straw, author of Are We Free Yet? The Black Queer Guide to Divorcing America, who describes liberation as "a celebration of our deepest humanity, and our fight for it must include a deeper examination of how we relate to oppressive systems while centering our joy, our peace, and our pleasure." That really is the essence of liberation—it's about freedom and the ability to experience joy, but also understanding that true liberation means dismantling systems of oppression while honoring our own humanity.
Becky Mollenkamp: How does that vision of liberation apply to the body? When I hear "body liberation," my brain sort of goes to freedom from the body, but I'm not sure that's what you mean. So what does body liberation mean to you?
Chrissy King: When I talk about body liberation, I'm not talking about freedom from our bodies because our bodies are our vessels—they're what make us human. That quote embodies the essence of it because it's about understanding the systems that have us at war with our bodies, but also learning to embrace joy and pleasure in ourselves. Body liberation doesn't mean one day you'll look in the mirror and love everything you see. I don't think that's a realistic standard, especially within a system constantly trying to convince us something is wrong with our bodies.
Instead, it's about understanding that at our core, our bodies allow us to have a human experience. We can spend our entire lives trying to manufacture a "better" or smaller version of ourselves, or we can set ourselves free. When I say free ourselves, I mean understanding that we deserve to exist in whatever body we have and that every version of ourselves is worthy and deserving of respect.
But bigger than personal liberation, body liberation is also about collective liberation. It's not just about finding peace within your own body—it's about a world where everybody, regardless of race, gender, or ability, has the freedom to exist free from harm, discrimination, and harassment, and to feel dignity and respect in their bodies.
Becky Mollenkamp: You said a lot in a few words, but it was powerful. I can hear people thinking, "That's big. How does one even begin to feel that sort of liberation around their own body, let alone collectively?" So let's start individually. Obviously, you're not going to be able to give us everything here, but what's the beginning of the body liberation journey at the individual level?
Chrissy King: Yeah, the first steps towards body liberation can feel overwhelming. It's a journey, not something that happens overnight. Most of us have spent a lot of our lives in a negative relationship with our bodies because of societal norms, media, programming, and even family influences. We didn't get to this place of discontent overnight, so we won't reach liberation overnight either.
I always stress the importance of grace, compassion, and kindness throughout this process. Some days will be harder than others. Unlearning harmful narratives is a big part of it for me. The Body Is Not an Apology by Sonya Renee Taylor was one of the first books that really helped shift my thinking, particularly around the intersections of racism and bodies. Understanding the historical aspect of how we got to this place of discontent with our bodies, or this idea that bigger bodies are somehow "bad," can help us start unlearning harmful narratives.
I often talk about how our obsession with dieting is a huge tool of distraction. When we're hyperfocused on our bodies, we don't have the energy to dismantle systems of oppression. So reminding myself of that mindset is crucial—it helps me return to the understanding that society wants us to dislike ourselves, to keep us distracted, to keep us from being in our power.
On a more practical level, I'm always encouraging people to be mindful of the content they consume, especially on social media. Unfollowing, muting, and disengaging from any content that makes us feel insecure is important. Even if the person isn't doing anything wrong, if their content makes us feel bad about ourselves, it's time to disengage. Spending less time on social media altogether is helpful too, especially on platforms like TikTok, where we can't always control the algorithm and there's a lot of toxic wellness culture.
Surrounding ourselves with people who support our vision and understand our journey is also key. There’s so much more to this, but those are some quick tips off the top of my head.
Becky Mollenkamp: I also want to make sure we talk about the collective aspect of body liberation. Obviously, I can't liberate other people at an individual level, but I can be part of the collective process of creating a world where everybody is safe, cared for, and liberated. So when you think about collective liberation for bodies, or the collective liberation that allows us all to have body freedom, what should we be thinking about? How do we think differently in a liberatory way when we think about the collective?
Chrissy King: I always talk about collective liberation because the reality is there's no individual liberation. Our liberation is tied to one another—none of us are free unless all of us are free. So, as we work towards individual liberation, we gain energy back that we can then use to work towards collective liberation.
When I talk about collective liberation, I’m always thinking about the most marginalized among us. Are they able to experience freedom in their bodies? As a Black woman, I experience discrimination, but I also have levels of privilege. I think about people who are Black and disabled, or Black and trans, and how multiple intersecting identities create different layers of oppression. Collective liberation means making sure those folks are free.
In the general body liberation space, we often talk about self-love and self-acceptance, and those are important. But self-love doesn't save us from experiencing harm in the world. The goal of collective liberation is for everyone, regardless of size, shape, gender, or sexuality, to experience freedom in their bodies. Those of us with more privilege need to work on dismantling systems of oppression, unlearning unconscious biases, and talking to those around us.
We may not individually dismantle white supremacy or other oppressive systems, but we all have a sphere of influence. We can create change around us, even if it's just planting seeds that may flourish into something beautiful one day. It's about having difficult conversations, calling people in compassionately, and explaining why certain beliefs or behaviors are harmful.
Becky Mollenkamp: I love that. Thank you for the reminder about privilege, which makes me think about how white-bodied women have co-opted, stolen, and profited from the body positivity, body liberation, and body love movements without often giving credit to the Black women who started these movements. I just want to point that out. It also makes me think about the differences between body positivity, body liberation, body acceptance, body neutrality, and self-love. How are those things related to or different from body liberation?
Chrissy King: A lot of definitions get thrown around, and we often use terms like body positivity, self-love, and liberation interchangeably, but they do have different meanings. Body positivity, for example, was a movement founded by Black and brown women, originally focused on empowering individuals to love and appreciate their bodies regardless of shape, size, or weight. But as the movement became mainstream, often co-opted by thinner, white, able-bodied women, it lost some of its original mission and passion, which was rooted in social justice and equity for marginalized bodies.
There's also a difference between having a personal body image issue and living in a body that's systemically oppressed because of its appearance. That's a crucial distinction that often gets conflated. But despite its issues, body positivity can still be an entryway to thinking differently about your body.
Body neutrality, on the other hand, is about moving away from disdain for your body and into a place of acceptance. It’s a realistic step for most people who can't immediately jump to loving their bodies. It’s about respecting your body even if you don’t love everything about it.
My goal for folks is to move toward liberation. When we achieve liberation, it's about understanding that our bodies are the least interesting thing about us—they’re just the vessel allowing us to have a human experience. Liberation isn’t about loving everything you see in the mirror; it’s about knowing that every version of your body is deserving of joy, love, and respect. It’s about recognizing the systems that have us at war with ourselves and choosing to embrace joy and pleasure instead.
Becky Mollenkamp: I want to steer us towards the end here by saying I love the subtitle of your book: How Understanding Racism and Diet Culture Helps Cultivate Joy and Build Collective Freedom. What does this work—doing body liberation work—how does that lead to more joy? What changes? I think so many of these interviews focus on the "how" and the "what," but not so much the "why" or the promise at the end. What's the result when you get farther down the journey of body liberation? What changes? What gets better?
Chrissy King: I love the question about joy and how body liberation allows us to have more of it. Often, we forget about the joy part of this conversation. For me, when I was deep in diet culture, all of my mental, physical, and emotional energy was focused on my body—how many calories I was consuming, whether I exercised, how much I weighed, how I looked. It was exhausting.
When I moved toward liberation, all of that lifted and shifted. It gave me so much more energy to put into things I enjoy, like writing, creative work, hobbies, and spending time with friends and family without being hyper-obsessed with food, my weight, or how I looked. It allowed me to experience the joy of life.
If we don’t address these issues and heal our relationship with our bodies, we risk letting our body image taint the best moments of our lives. We might let our weight or appearance stop us from celebrating accomplishments or enjoying life with our loved ones. We’ll get to the end of our lives and still be thinking about how we wished our bodies were different. Life is brief, and when we're on our deathbeds, no one will care if we had six-pack abs. They’ll remember the joy, love, and experiences we shared.
Healing our relationship with our bodies allows us to be present in our lives, to experience joy, and to free up mental energy for things we really want to do, like dismantling systems of oppression, finding new hobbies, and just being present. Joy is revolutionary, and the more I'm able to free myself, the more I'm able to experience joy. Body liberation was the first step for me.
One last thing I’ll say is that I’ve noticed a real return to '90s and 2000s fatphobia lately, which coincides with increased attempts to roll back women's rights, both reproductive and marital. I don’t think it's a coincidence. I think it's intentional—they want to keep us distracted, to keep us making ourselves small, both literally and figuratively. They want us to do anything but take our power back, and dieting is a tool that accomplishes that. That's something I want us all to keep pondering, and it's something I'll be writing and exploring more in the future.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thank you for that vision. I really appreciate it, and I appreciate your time. I hope people read the book and follow your Substack. I’ll link to those in the show notes. As we close, do you have any last thoughts to share and where people can connect with you?
Chrissy King: Folks can follow me on Instagram, TikTok, and Threads @IAmChrissyKing. My website is ChrissyKing.com, and of course, I have my Substack, The Liberation Collective.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thank you so much, Chrissy, for participating. I hope everyone enjoyed this conversation. I know I did, and I hope you learned a lot and feel inspired. Make sure you go and follow Chrissy and read her work to learn more about how to continue and deepen this work. Tomorrow, I’ll be back with another amazing episode, this time with Kelsey Blackwell about decolonizing the body. So we’re going to keep talking about the body this week—first liberation, and now decolonization—and we can learn more about what that difference means. I’ll be back tomorrow.