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David Sirota 0:00
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's special bonus episode just for paid subscribers to lever time today we're going to be talking about the climate crisis, a climate crisis that now seems to be getting very real for everyone. It was always very real, but it has gotten like really, really, really real. I think for millions of people who maybe hadn't thought much about it at all. I'm here with the levers reporters. First up Rebecca burns. Hey, Rebecca.

Rebecca Burns
Hey, David.

David Sirota
And I'm also here with the lovers Julie rock. Hey, Julia, how you doing?

Julia Rock 0:43
Doing? Well? How are you doing, David?

David Sirota 0:44
Good. I hope your throat is clear from the smoke you're breathing in, in New York. Okay, I just want to get into what I mean about the climate crisis getting really, really, really a bunch of news stories this week, all kind of snowballing, no pun intended, about the climate crisis. First of all, lots of people who are listening to this podcast right now have probably been choking on wildfire smoke in on the East Coast. Now, folks on the East Coast are probably not used to that we've gotten used to it out here in the west where I live in Denver. Unfortunately, we've had to get used to that every summer. But now, wildfire smoke has engulfed a big swath of the East Coast. So that's one thing where I think people are realizing this is getting real. Out in the West. Insurance companies are pulling out of California, Allstate And State Farm are no longer offering new homeowners and other insurance products in California because of the dangers of the climate crisis out there. So that's no small thing because of course, California is such a giant economy. I mean, Insurance companies do not pull out of California without really thinking about it. That's a lot of business. To give up. Another thing from the news where the climate crisis is becoming real, the federal government admits that atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have jumped again, to the largest amount known on record so they did not go down last year they continue to rise. And then I found this one super interesting. Long overdue, frankly, but Arizona, it's Republican. It's a Republican Ron state. It is limiting construction, new construction around Phoenix, as water supplies in that area now dwindle below. There normally dwindled levels. So things getting really apocalyptic in the American Southwest. i The reason I say it's, it's belated is because the fact that we built giant cities in the middle of deserts was always sort of a risk. But now in the era of climate change, it's I guess, the the bill is coming due, the reality is meeting that the fantasy of American expansion. I just want to turn it over to Rebecca. And Julia. I mean, does it feel like things are getting more real and more horrifying to you?

Rebecca Burns 3:08
Julia, how are your lungs doing in New York? Yeah,

Julia Rock 3:12
yeah, I mean, it was quite the week here. You know, it's funny, I woke up, I think, I guess it was on Tuesday went for a run seemed like it was a little bit cloudy, didn't make much of it. And then like, within 24 hours, it was like the worst air pollution event in US history. And there was just no, like, no politician, you know, was putting out warning systems kids were sent out of school without masks on. Like, that was part of what was so remarkable. It's just how unprepared you know, if you're not really willing to believe that climate change is happening or do anything about it, it probably means you're also not preparing for events like the one we had in New York this week. But yeah, it was completely miserable for me, you know, had a headache and running was miserable, which obviously I shouldn't have done, but did anyways. But it was a wild week here.

David Sirota 3:55
Yeah. I mean, I do wonder if I mean, I saw a stat it was from from the hour a tweet, Adam Johnson wrote about this about how the the nightly news covered the wildfire events or the smoke, of course, it gets more coverage, because it's happening in New York, the media capital of the world, and I'm not mad about that. I'm glad it's getting I'm glad it's getting coverage. It deserves to be covered. But but he was saying that there was barely a mention of climate change. And, you know, even on social media. Now, granted, you don't want to judge the world through social media. You're getting in my feed this week. We've been reporting, of course, on the mountain valley pipeline and how I mean, I did this tweet where it was like, there was a picture of how you this from the from the US Senate, you now at one point you couldn't see the Washington Monument because of wildfire smoke, and I tweeted out something like yeah, the senators who, literally past a fossil fuel pipeline, it's expedited that in law now, because of climate intensified, wildfires can Can't see the Washington Monument like there's there's a, I don't know if you'd call it irony or sort of dystopia in that. But of course on social media you always get on I always think they're kind of bots, but whatever it's like, well, well tell me what a pipeline has to do with with wildfires and what does what does the natural gas pipeline have to do with with, with, with, with smoke, etc, etc. I mean, that kind of stuff drives me crazy. I, I mean, Rebecca, do you think like Pete, like, people are still going to dig in and pretend that there's not a connection between what folks are doing in Washington visa vie the fossil fuel industry and what is happening in the physical world?

Rebecca Burns 5:38
I don't know if there's some combination of bots and then just sort of like self protective denial of some segment of the population. The other thing I saw on social media, did you I don't know if you saw this, probably Julia. But there's the billboard for the game Diablo four. That's like a billboard with a devil that says Welcome to hell, New York with like, orange smoke rising in the background. So yeah, things are getting real and things are feeling pretty pretty on the nose.

David Sirota 6:08
Yeah, I mean, that's like art imitating life imitating art imitating the apocalypse. It's it's it I just feel like the denial machine is not giving in. And actually, before we get to some of the reporting, that YouTube have done, I mean, speaking of that, Andrew Perez of the lever did this story for us this week, about climate protesters interrupting an event. And there's this picture and I hope everybody who's listening to this goes and checks out the picture on our website. I mean, it's like a Renaissance painting. This picture from the protests, right? I mean, like, so this picture, it's this event sponsored by semaphore, which is one of these Washington newsletters, actually, the event is sponsored by essentially a fossil fuel lobby group and the US Chamber of Commerce, to promote Joe Manchin, who and Joe mansions pipeline deal that I just mentioned. And this picture shows semaphore is pundit Steve Clemons, like ordering these young climate protesters off the stage, they're trying to protest Joe Manchin, and you see Joe Manchin standing behind them trying to deliver his happy speech. I mean, it really does look like a kind of Renaissance photo, or painting. And, and the thing is, though, is that it's still sort of like an image of denial, like kudos to the protesters, but like, here's Washington DC, choking on wildfire smoke. And the sort of personification of the Washington corporate press is trying to throw protesters off a stage at an event sponsored by a fossil fuel lobby group and event promoting Joe Manchin and his pipeline like, I don't like eat like, outside of the of this room, people are choking on the air, right? Like, in, I guess, in the Hollywood telling, you might imagine people start choking on the air, they realize we have to do something and then the world gets saved. But I don't think this is how this movie is gonna go. Right. Like, I think the denial machine is going to continue pushing forward as if nothing is going on. I mean, doesn't it feel that way?

Rebecca Burns 8:25
Yeah, it feels like that painting is going to end up hanging and like, you know, the last museum standing somewhere in a desert wasteland in the future. And it'll it'll be it'll be very illuminating at that point.

David Sirota 8:38
It's like the movie I said, it's like the movie poster of the prequel origin story of Mad Max Fury Road. Like, this is how we got to Mad Max Fury Road, like pretending this stuff isn't happening or pretending everything is just normal. I mean, I don't know. I mean, Julie, I know you can't speak for the whole city of New York. But But I mean, does an event like this? Is it is it just gonna be like, you know, in two days, it's gonna be like, you know, the smokes gone? Everything's fine.

Julia Rock 9:06
I don't think so. I think that like as, as events like this sort of continued to pile up, it really changes people's views on climate change and experience of it. I mean, right when I moved here, there was like a flash flooding event that I think Wake Up Calls the wrong word. But sticks in my mind is like, this is what summers are going to be like in New York, you have the heat waves. I think I think it piles up for people. And you made a point a couple months ago, David about the gas stove. stuff where it's like, once it's in like the lungs of kids, like stuff like that, I think can be really salient. Not to say events like this are sort of politically useful or something I think you're right. You know, the the denial machine is strong, but I think this changes things for people.

David Sirota 9:50
I really I sure hope so. Now, I think part of the problem with the climate issue as a whole is that it feels like nothing can be done On feels like this is an inevitability. And I think combating that is really difficult because we live in an in an instant gratification culture, where we want to think, Oh, we're gonna pass a bill and then the problem will be fixed like this challenge to deal with it to prevent the worst parts of it will take the rest of our lives, there's no one bill or one, one thing that can be done to, to avert the worst of this, it's going to be lots and lots and lots of things. So that's a good segue to things that are happening, that could actually be good could actually participate in intensifying the fight against the worst parts of this. So let's start with, let's start with what's going on in California at the pension system. So I'll just preface this by saying, I can almost hear listeners saying, Well, what does the pension have to do with the climate crisis in California? I don't get that. So Julia, what's the good news in the world of California pensions as it relates to the climate apocalypse?

Julia Rock 11:09
Well, so public employees in California hold more than $44 billion in fossil fuel investments, which is really substantial. I mean, the California pension system is massive. And obviously, you know, this capital is helping to prop up the fossil fuel industry, which is increasingly, you know, struggling to find access to capitalize pensions, divest, you know, institutions divest, there becomes sort of more more uncertainty for the long term prospects of these companies. So a couple of weeks ago, the Senate in California passed a bill to divest those pensions from the fossil fuel industry, it obviously now has to pass the assembly and be signed by the governor. But I know they've introduced this bill a couple of times. Now, it's pretty remarkable, you know, that it's already made it through through the Senate there. And this is happening in other states, you know, New York has had some moves to divest the pensions from fossil fuels, other cities and states have as well, I think it's not just you know, about cutting off money to the fossil fuel industry. I think it's also about protecting pensioners from the risks of having fossil fuel holdings. And they're the ones obviously, who are breathing in in wildfire smoke.

David Sirota 12:21
And I think it's worth adding that California is seen as a leader in the world of pensions, and it's a $5 trillion world of public pensions, I mean, that that is a lot of money. $44 billion is a lot. But it's still when it comes to the global economy, obviously a little bit of a drop in the bucket. But California's pension systems are so big, that they can create a trends and models and pathways for other institutional investors to follow a lot of institutional investors do follow what California does. So if California is made to if California lawmakers make their pension system, divest from fossil fuel holdings, it really I think, can build up momentum to start D capitalizing the fossil fuel industry. And I think that is absolutely key in this crime. And the fossil fuel industry needs cheap money, it needs investment money to continue building out its infrastructure. Now, the thing I worry about, and Julia, I know you've reported on this, too, so I want to just ask you about this. The thing I worry about, is that the divestment movement, as it tries to get institutional investors to divest from obvious fossil fuel investments like, okay, sell off your Exxon Mobil stock, right? I mean, that's an obvious thing to do, right. But more and more of the capital flowing into the fossil fuel industry is going into opaque investments like private equity, and the like. So my my concern is that you can look like you're divesting from the top line investments Chevron stock Exxon stock. But if a pension system if institutional investors are capitalizing the private equity firms who underneath their sort of patina their brand patinas are funneling that money into fossil fuels, then you haven't fully gotten to the problem. I mean, just tell us a little bit about sort of the middleman, the private equity middleman, and how private equity is kind of opaque, it's hard to know where it's putting that money.

Julia Rock 14:32
I mean, I think you summarized it very well. But yes, when these fossil fuel assets, whether it's like oil and gas wells, or power plants, or other infrastructure are sold from public entities to you know, the private equity industry or other sort of private capital, there's much less oversight of that infrastructure. You know, there's a lot of evidence, for example, that private equity owned oil and gas wells run a lot dirtier Because one one, there's less oversight, but to the private equity firm knows that in the end, it's going to sell it. So it's not going to have to be be responsible for cleanup costs. So I think it all of this really does have to be prepared, prepared with pensions moving away from private equity, which is something we've been reporting on a lot, or at the very least sort of pension funds demanding more information from the private equity funds. They're invested in about their fossil fuel holdings, which is happening a little bit in New York, but but has been a big fight, because obviously, some of these big firms are very cozy with pension officials and politicians,

David Sirota 15:35
right. So this disclosure issue, it's just like, hard to know what Blackstone owns are hard to know what the Carlyle Group owns or KKR. These are big private equity firms in pension holdings and their listings, they just list Blackstone, but it's hard to see what's inside of that $2 billion Blackstone investment. And that's in a lot of ways where I think a lot of capital is going capital that doesn't want to be pressured by by climate activist by the climate movement, just as that will just put it into the black box of private equity. So that speaks to the issue of disclosure, which is a good segue to something else. Good. That is that could happen. Again, in California. Rebecca burns, you you have reported on a big fight over climate disclosure for companies doing business in California, which obviously is lots and lots of companies, because it's what the fourth or fifth largest economy in the world. Tell us about what's going on in California when it comes to potentially a lot more disclosure so that we know which companies are really creating and intensifying the climate crisis.

Rebecca Burns 16:43
Right. So the California Senate passed what I think is really one of the most piece important pieces of climate legislation in the country, perhaps in the world right now, that's really kind of flying under the radar. So this is a climate disclosure bill that does two things, one of them speaks to what we're just talking about, which is that it covers all companies, public or private. So basically, that means, you know, there's there's this concern that if we start requiring companies to do sort of an honest accounting of their emissions of how they're actually contributing to climate change, they'll just say, Okay, we don't want to do this. We're going private. Now, we don't have to tell you anything. So the California bill would would cover recover private companies as well. It also covers all companies doing business in California, not just headquartered in California. And because California is this giant economy effectively, that makes it national policy, for it to pass the assembly and be signed by the Governor as well. So we've seen sort of a very similar effort by the Securities and Exchange Commission in Washington, that's been hugely controversial has gotten sort of tied up in all sorts of industry lobbying. Also, pushback from Democrats, corporate Democrats, that take contributions from Big Oil. If this bill passes in California, it would actually be a huge step, New York has introduced a similar measure measure as well, that would sort of almost obviate not totally, but you know, what, the gridlock in Washington over this kind of measure.

David Sirota 18:23
So I just want to just go a little deeper on this. So this would essentially force much broader disclosure by companies about their entire supply chains, about the carbon emissions related to their supply chain. So if you're a company that sells a product right now, under the potential new SEC rules, you may only have to disclose your own company's emissions, not the emissions that were related to how the product was, was originally made, how it was manufactured in the like, which then raises this very interesting issue about who is opposing the bill in California, your story notes, for instance, that none other than In and Out Burger has been lobbying on this bill, which some some might say, wait, wait, why is Why is a fast food joint lobbying on a climate disclosure bill? What do you think's behind that?

Rebecca Burns 19:24
Yeah, my my California friends were very sad about this. A lot of In and Out Burger lovers out there. But what's really interesting about this bill and sort of the shape of the fight that's taking place, you know, obviously, the the oil industry opposes this because the bill would sort of force them you know, these days, even oil companies really can't sort of be outright climate deniers they have to say like, oh, well, we're contributing to the energy transition and like our headquarters are so energy efficient, like Nevermind the actual effects of people burning millions of barrels of oil that we produce. So oil is against it, you know, the construction industry is against it, chemical industries are against it. The meat industry is also really against it. And that's because like you said, David, the bill would sort of require them to come clean about all of the sources of their emissions. So so to take the example of In and Out Burger, you know, perhaps their stores use energy efficient lighting, you know, some of the employees take the train to work, all these types of things that might not contribute that much to the climate. But when you look at the the production of products used in their actual supply chain, so you know, meat and dairy, that's hugely carbon intensive. And so what this bill says, and sort of what climate activist has been saying is like, we need this full picture, this full accounting of all of the sources of emissions in these everyday products, kind of almost as a prerequisite a first step to know, what are the most impactful ways to reduce them at the speed and scale? We need to?

David Sirota 21:12
Yeah, I had read a study a couple of years ago about, about how one thing that American clean energy and climate policy had potentially done is simply offshore, the dirtiest kinds of production to other countries like China, that you're not really addressing the climate issue. If your own country creates a better pollution laws, let's say I mean, that's, that's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. But if the effective it is to simply move the dirty operations to a place like China, it's like, we're all still on one spaceship, right? So it's all still one life support system. And so if you just move your dirtiest processes somewhere else, the pollution still affects the atmosphere, which affects the life support system on on the spaceship. So seems to me that much more comprehensive disclosure up and down the entire supply chain, yes, will give us a much better picture of where the real problems are, because we're gonna have to prioritize where the real emissions are coming from. I had read a story a little while ago about how not on my radar until I read the story about, you know, how much carbon emissions are related to, for instance, cement and concrete, right, just things you don't even necessarily think about steel and the like the creation of the production of steel, it's like, we need to know where the biggest polluters really are up and down the global supply chain to know where to focus as much of our energy, no pun intended, as possible. Okay. So that's good news. Those are two pieces of good news. I guess I'm gonna end on a piece of of disturbing news. It hasn't happened yet. But it could be bad news. But I want to get it into this discussion, because it obviously does relate to the climate. And it relates to also something that Julian mentioned earlier how the production of fossil fuels and the burning of fossil fuels often also come with, kind of in the moment of physical risks to the physical world beyond just the climate. And I'm talking about the story that Julia reported on the great oil train project of 2023, a crazy story involving the Biden administration, involving the largest source of water in the drought parched southwest of the United States. I mean, this is if this actually goes forward. It is a truly apocalyptic story. It hasn't gone forward. That's why we're reporting on it. Julia, just tell us the whole story about what's going on with the oil trains.

Julia Rock 24:05
Okay, so there is a region of Utah that has a lot of untapped crude oil sitting beneath the earth hasn't been drilled yet. A few oil producers in Utah think they can make a ton of money, drilling it and shipping it to the Gulf Coast where it can be exported to other countries. If only they had a way of getting the oil out of the basin. It sits into the national rail network because you have to transport the oil somehow. And it can't really be transported through pipelines. So they have devised a scheme to run a railroad out of this basin in Utah, alongside the Colorado River I think for 200 miles just next to the river on on on oil trains that are oftentimes two miles long, and bring it to these refineries in the Gulf Coast. So first, go ahead

David Sirota 25:00
Yeah, so let's just like layer on how many layers of insanity. This is. Okay, so top layer, we're going to burn more fossil fuels during the climate crisis. Okay, that's like just sort of baseline insanity. Okay? The area being one of the areas being hit the hardest by the climate crisis in terms of waters, the southwest, it has one major water supply the Colorado River. So we're going to take oil trains, and we're going to run them right next to the Colorado River, this source of water. And we're going to do that amid a derailment crisis, a sort of general derailment crisis. Okay, so that's like three layers of insanity. Now, the fourth layer of insanity to my mind is, is it's not just generally a derailment crisis, but talk to us about the particular route, the particular part of the river that these trains would run alongside.

Julia Rock 26:01
Right, so again, the trains are running right next to the Colorado River, one of the areas and the train runs through to highlight an example is the Glenwood Canyon, which often there's a highway that runs through it, and the highway shuts down every year for reasons including rock slides, mudslides, forest fires, truck crashes, the the railroad runs right next to this highway, which runs through this canyon. I mean, you've been there, David, you can speak to it more, but it's basically a steep, treacherous Canyon, that these trains would have to make it through as they above the river.

David Sirota 26:39
I'm going to be with my kids in that canyon. Next week, we're taking a little trip out to Colorado out to the to the to the west western slope with the kids and I can tell you I have been through Glenwood Canyon a lot it is what it is a beautiful spot. It's it's just a great, it's a great place. But the road is closed quite often because of as you said, mudslides, rockslides, etc, etc. So the idea of running anything super sensitive, right next to the river in that canyon. I mean, it's almost like it's it's designed to create the plan is designed to create a catastrophe. And yet, here's the fifth layer of insanity. Okay, so we've gotten four layers. The fifth layer of insanity in the story is what the Biden administration has already done, and what it could do now tell us about that.

Julia Rock 27:40
I mean, yeah, so the first part is that, you know, if you're going to build a new train, you need approval from the federal government, which the Biden administration has given. I mean, one of the key approvals it got was from sort of a bipartisan commission, there are some agencies in Washington that sort of necessarily have to have Democrats and Republicans on them. So there were some Republicans who, who approved the train, but the Biden environmental agencies, like fish and wildlife, the Forest Service, have also given permits to this project. And now, the developers of the project are saying it's not going to be viable, without public subsidies, amounting to $80 million a year in federal tax dollars, which they're trying to get from Pete Buda judge at the Transportation Department, a bunch of Democrats have said to their own transportation secretary say no to this subsidy. You know, this train is a disaster, and it certainly shouldn't be getting public money. And there's been nothing for Pete. I mean, they've been asking him this since March. Now. It's June. There's been nothing from Pete. So,

David Sirota 28:44
Pete Pete's totally silent. That's that's, that's, I wish I could say I was surprised. But of course, we've done enough reporting on Pete that I am, I am not surprised. I really hope everyone reads the story. And I really, really, really hope that this project stopped, like, like, it just doesn't happen. And it stops in it dead in its tracks. Again, another another pun. So I'm sorry to end on a on a bad note. I mean, I guess it's not bad. It's like this could be bad. But but if you're hearing this, and you have members of Congress, you can talk to if you're living out here, your local members of Congress, I mean, tell them to get on this and stop this. This thing is this thing is truly apocalyptic. But again, there is good news. And my hope is, is that out of all of this news of the climate crisis, getting really, really real. And again, I go back to that Arizona story which I mentioned at the top, Arizona's Republican, Republican led state stopping development around Phoenix because of dwindling water supplies. I mean, this is how real it's getting like the physical world is now five finally being recognized in the, in the political world, which so often ignores the physical world. And I think what's going on in in on the east coast with with with wildfire smoke and the like, it just makes it more and more real. And the longer we wait to take it seriously, the worse it's gonna get. But as as we've discussed here, there are things that can be done, there are things that are being done. So I want to thank you, Rebecca burns and Julia rock for both reporting on this. I really appreciate it. We will have more reporting on all of this at lever news.com. That's it for today's bonus episode, and I should always mention Thanks a ton for being a paid subscriber to lever. We could not do this work without you. If you particularly liked this episode, please pitch into our tip jar. The tip jar link is in this episode's description, or at lever news.com/tip jar. Every little bit helps us do this journalism. Until next time, I'm David Sirota rock the boat