Lever Time - Premium

[Auto generated transcript]

00:02:29:09 - 00:02:55:23
Frank Cappello
Hi, everyone. This is producer Frank, and welcome to this week's special bonus episode for paid subscribers. This week, we've got some good news to talk about. We'll be discussing the Build Public Renewables Act, which was recently passed as a part of New York State's annual budget. It's a huge win for climate activists and is a big step forward toward realizing publicly owned 100% renewable energy in the state, which has the third largest economy in the country.

00:02:56:05 - 00:03:20:17
Frank Cappello
The new initiative requires the New York Power Authority, the largest state owned power organization in the country, to provide solely renewable energy by 2030 and transitions all state owned and municipal properties to renewables by 2035. The bill also prioritizes union jobs, pay rate protection, job development and apprenticeships, and hiring workers who have lost employment in nonrenewable energy sectors.

00:03:20:18 - 00:03:42:22
Frank Cappello
So today, myself and the Levers Editorial fellow Kier Diego Powell sat down with New York based organizer Brandon Teasel from the NYC DSA Eco Socialist Working Group to discuss the four year long campaign to pass the Build Public Renewables Act. Thank you again for being a supporting subscriber and funding the work we do here at the Lever. Now here's today's bonus episode.

00:03:43:00 - 00:03:54:20
Frank Cappello
All right. Joining us today on our bonus episode of Lever Time is Brandon Teasel from the NYC DSA Eco Socialist Working Group. Brandon, thank you so much for being here.

00:03:54:22 - 00:03:56:05
Brandon Tizol
Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.

00:03:56:07 - 00:04:10:09
Frank Cappello
Of course. And we are also joined with the Levers editorial fellow Kirti Gopal, who did the write up in our We Love to See It Newsletter 30 Welcome to your first official Lever podcast appearance.

00:04:10:14 - 00:04:12:03
Keerti Gopal
Thanks. Excited to be here.

00:04:12:05 - 00:04:21:14
Frank Cappello
So Brandon Yeah, we wanted to talk to you about this, this, this campaign, this huge win. And I know I learned about it from Curtis right up. So I'll let I'll let her jump in.

00:04:21:18 - 00:04:33:10
Keerti Gopal
Yeah, well, I'm a New Yorker, so I was very excited to see the Bill Public Renewables Act go through. Could you just start by giving our listeners a little bit of an overview of what BPA is and why it's such a big win?

00:04:33:15 - 00:05:02:09
Brandon Tizol
Sure. So, you know, the basic overview of of PRA bill for renewables will be pure from now on because that's a mouthful. The basic overview is that it allows the New York Power Authority, it gives it gives the New York Power Authority, the authority to build renewables, to help meet climate standards that were set a few years back through SEALs EPA to hit 70% renewable power generation in the state of New York.

00:05:02:11 - 00:05:30:03
Brandon Tizol
We're currently nowhere near that 70% by 2030. We're currently nowhere near that. And prior to BPR passing, there was really no feasible plan forward to reach those numbers. We were just set to miss it and not do anything about it really. And what BP did was actually put a viable path forward for us to hit our climate goals, which is something that we just weren't doing before.

00:05:30:08 - 00:05:47:15
Frank Cappello
That's fantastic. You know, we hear elected officials say so often like this is going to be our target emissions goal. We're going to hit this target. And a lot of it is just like you could say, target numbers as much as you want. But until, like you said, there is a viable path forward, a lot of it is just wishful thinking.

00:05:47:15 - 00:06:06:06
Brandon Tizol
It's wishful thinking and barely even that, like a lot of the targets that we even put forward don't even come close to hitting what we actually need to do to live on or like survive on this planet. Sure, we set these goals that are inadequate to begin with and then we do nothing to reach them. It's like a it's a double whammy on that front.

00:06:06:08 - 00:06:10:09
Brandon Tizol
So yeah, we're trying to actually set real goals and meet them. You know?

00:06:10:14 - 00:06:30:07
Frank Cappello
And so the passing of the PRA was the result of four years of grassroots organizing. So can you talk a little bit about how the campaign got started or at least DSA has involvement in it? Who have been the key players and what have been some of the biggest challenges over the last four years?

00:06:30:10 - 00:06:56:08
Brandon Tizol
Yeah, so, you know, over the course of these four years, the bills as we wrote them, took different shape as we met challenges along the road, right? So, you know, the reality is that when we started it was it was literally a handful of people who had no real experience of moving anything into law, really. Right. Like Schoolhouse Rock.

00:06:56:08 - 00:07:19:10
Brandon Tizol
It was like the extent of our education, I think. And, you know, and looking back on it, like we were really naive on on a number of things, right? Like how to organize regular people to care about these things, how to organize different stakeholders from politicians to unions to community organizations, like Whatever it Takes rate. We really know how to do that.

00:07:19:10 - 00:07:43:17
Brandon Tizol
And so over the course of the four years, we bumped our heads, a lot of times trying to learn those things, how to how to get different constituencies on board. But then we also had to make some changes to the bill itself over that time frame to get people on board. And obviously, you know, we're very happy with the bill as it passed.

00:07:43:22 - 00:08:04:18
Brandon Tizol
We think that it still very much represents the vision of what we set out to do four years ago. But along the way, you know, there just there are things that you have to do and the things that you learn in the process, too. It's not even just like it's all compromise. It's like you actually if you're bringing in stakeholders, you have to do that in a way where you're actually listening to people too, right?

00:08:04:20 - 00:08:37:22
Brandon Tizol
And so there were things that we learned over the course four years that then we really, yeah, like this makes perfect sense to put this in the bill or to take something out or whatever the case and especially what's going to help us move the football down the field a little bit. We're going to do that. And so, yeah, I mean, it was a it was a long process of a lot of tweaks and measures and a lot of figuring out where we were strong, where we weren't on constant strategizing Over the course of the four years, we have at least quarterly strategy sessions among all the organizers involved and honestly, more accurately, like weekly

00:08:37:22 - 00:09:00:06
Brandon Tizol
strategy sessions for anyone who has the capacity to be involved. It was all volunteer ran, volunteer operated. So, you know, capacity comes and goes for individual people. But it's also one of the most I mean, the most democratic process I've been involved with for any work that I've done. Right. Where, you know, you ask who who are the key players?

00:09:00:06 - 00:09:20:08
Brandon Tizol
And honestly, it's hard to answer that. There are so many people in the process along the way, so many people that we could call leaders. But at the same time, there was nobody who was really driving things above anybody else. Everyone had a had their say and everyone was invited to every space and that's how we ran it.

00:09:20:13 - 00:09:35:17
Frank Cappello
So would it be accurate to say that this was a DSA initiative like the DSA was sort of spearheading this entire campaign? Or was it or were you working with a, a collection of organizations, advocacy groups, etc.?

00:09:35:18 - 00:10:08:18
Brandon Tizol
So here's here's what I'll say. I will say that public power, as it began, was a few people in a room as a DSA meeting. That's what it was. Over the course of time, we built out into the public Power of New York coalition. And, you know, we made we made allies with a number of different groups from SA, New York, Food and Water Watch, like a number of different groups got involved in, absolutely helped us move things forward as well.

00:10:08:18 - 00:10:37:01
Brandon Tizol
I would say by the beginning it was New York City DSA or Socialist Working Group, and in the end I would say that, you know, New York City DSA Egal Socialist Working Group remains an absolute core part of of how it all happened. And I also want to say among all the other different coalition partners, DSA itself outside of New York City was extremely helpful on Mid-Hudson Valley.

00:10:37:01 - 00:11:00:04
Brandon Tizol
DSA specifically got really involved with BPR a through Sarah Honest campaign, and they've been invaluable. So not just the other partners, but also DSA, you know, on the whole. And you know, as, as this goes forward, I'm sure we'll get to this as we move into implementation. You know, this is a state built. It's not a city bill.

00:11:00:06 - 00:11:11:00
Brandon Tizol
And so we need to have statewide coalition in New York City or I'm sorry, DSA chapters across the state are going to be huge in that.

00:11:11:05 - 00:11:30:14
Keerti Gopal
That's awesome. It's really inspiring. I think, to hear that it was a group of people who didn't really have that much experience with legislative organizing because that's really how like this kind of progress happens. So I think that's pretty cool for other other states to hear. We know that the BPP ended up passing as part of the state's budget, not as a standalone bill.

00:11:30:20 - 00:11:39:18
Keerti Gopal
Could you talk a little bit about if that matters, how that matters for its implementation, and what were some of these concessions and things that you had to tweak over the past few years?

00:11:39:20 - 00:12:06:21
Brandon Tizol
Yeah, you know, New York State is weird in how in how laws are passed. I mean, everything is weird, right? But in New York State, the governor has an immense amount of power. And that is, I think, you know, institutionally in the way things are written. But then also in just how the processes work out and how laws are passed in New York.

00:12:06:23 - 00:12:37:12
Brandon Tizol
So, you know, for for our purposes, it doesn't really make much of a real difference whether it came through the governor's budget or whether it came through a legislative session, that that doesn't matter. So much at the end of the day. But tactically, I will say that, you know, we tried to get very through legislative session for a couple of years and we weren't able to do it.

00:12:37:14 - 00:13:12:14
Brandon Tizol
And in that time, we learned a lot of things and I think implemented different pressure campaigns that made it so that whole was not able to ignore it. But she had to address Parra in her budget. And, you know, she did it initially with a watered down version of the bill that we found to be unacceptable. And so the fact that she felt like she had to do that was absolutely a response to our tactic of trying to push things through the legislature in previous years And the pressure that we put on her before that.

00:13:12:16 - 00:13:21:22
Brandon Tizol
So was all piece a piece of the same puzzle? That doesn't make sense, but you know what I mean? And, you know, we wouldn't have had more without the other.

00:13:22:00 - 00:13:43:03
Frank Cappello
So now that the BPA is passed, what are like the immediate implications, in other words, like who is going to benefit other than obviously all of us, because we all need to have a livable climate. But I know that this bill was really geared to to address race and class based inequities in New York. So can you speak a little bit about that?

00:13:43:03 - 00:14:17:19
Brandon Tizol
Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I want to say is, is the overall goal of of, you know, attacking climate change head on in in in as direct the ways we possibly could in this sense that in and of itself is directly aimed at black and brown New Yorkers you know lower income New Yorkers. The reality is that black people are on the front lines of I mean, everything that ails American society.

00:14:17:21 - 00:14:45:17
Brandon Tizol
That's clear, that's obvious, that's intentional. Poor people are on the front lines of everything, every ailment in this country, too. That's clear, obvious and intentional. And as the climate crisis continues to worsen and evolve, well, it's not it's not on the way. It's not looming like it's here. And as it continues to evolve, black people, poor people are going to be the ones who are affected most acutely, Right?

00:14:45:19 - 00:15:22:23
Brandon Tizol
Asthma Alley in New York City that's filled with black people. The way that we operate. Our electric grid is going to be hot this summer thanks to climate change. When we have these planned blackouts in certain areas of the city, you know, they make they choose where to put those in in a pretty clear way. So I do want to say that just the impact of whatever this does to alleviate any of that climate based pressure that's going to affect people, that is a race based impact is something that absolutely went into how we approached all this work.

00:15:22:23 - 00:15:52:10
Brandon Tizol
Now, in terms of more more ways of that, that that is playing out also, you know, one of the major winds of passing is going to result in lower energy bills for lower income New Yorkers. Right. You know, as if it's not bad enough that all of the of the worst negative impacts of climate change fall on the back of poor people.

00:15:52:12 - 00:16:18:03
Brandon Tizol
You know, there's also the fact that they have to pay out of pocket to to experience that, too. And so, you know, cutting those bills, first and foremost was was huge for us also in this process, you know, not even just be very related, but we were able to stave off energy trying to open a plant in a low income area that would have impacted, again, poor people, black people in New York, in New York City.

00:16:18:05 - 00:16:44:05
Brandon Tizol
We've also we have language in the bill to eliminate use of power plants in the city over the course of time that are put in place in the state. Over the course of time, that again, not coincidentally, are oftentimes located around poor New Yorkers, black New Yorkers, brown New Yorkers. And they have to suffer the impacts of that of that on their environment and how they live, work, breathe all the time.

00:16:44:05 - 00:16:58:09
Brandon Tizol
And so all of these things were designed 100% in mind to make sure that poor New Yorkers, black and brown New Yorkers, are able to benefit from a better climate future than what it is that we're barreling towards right now.

00:16:58:11 - 00:17:13:19
Keerti Gopal
Yeah. Were there tweaks in that area that you did have to make over the past few years? Like in terms of like the justice applications of the bill? Like when you were getting pressure from legislators and putting pressure, were there kind of changes that had to be made or what did you really keep strong on?

00:17:14:00 - 00:17:44:05
Brandon Tizol
Yeah, what I would say is that I believe that we were able to stay remarkably solid on a lot of the justice provisions. There were, you know, cuts that had to be made and I think concessions that had to be made in terms of how implementation is going to take place. Right. There's a period of time where there's going to be input collected from different stakeholders to try to move forward and how that's going to go.

00:17:44:05 - 00:18:19:22
Brandon Tizol
I think that that we wanted a slightly more Democratic, direct democracy in that, and I think that's been diluted a little bit. When we first started out, we we had a whole other portion of the bill to directly take on the energy companies. You know, some of those things have been put on hold. And, you know, there were some some things that didn't feel great to have to to have to decisions that had to be made.

00:18:20:00 - 00:18:32:05
Brandon Tizol
But I do firmly believe that we stayed very strong when it came to our commitment to racial justice, our commitment to climate justice writ large.

00:18:32:07 - 00:18:44:12
Keerti Gopal
So the New York Power Authority is the largest state public power authority in the country, which is pretty big deal. What are the implications of this VRA for the rest of the country?

00:18:44:14 - 00:19:28:07
Brandon Tizol
So I think that BPR has the potential to be the blueprint for how we can generate industry power across the nation. First, in how you mentioned rate nypa itself as originally intended by FDR. You know, way back, it is a huge, huge, huge institution. And so we have now the institutional authority and the potential to follow through on a huge promise in a way that we we normally don't do when promises are made about climate.

00:19:28:07 - 00:19:59:22
Brandon Tizol
So I think that that in and of itself know kind of being a standard that everyone can see, I think that will be extremely important. I think beyond that, the story of how we were able to make this happen, I'm hopeful that that will allow other people to know that they can do it, too. Now, obviously, New York has its own specific realities when it comes to legislature constituencies.

00:19:59:22 - 00:20:16:07
Brandon Tizol
Whatever the case, and those are going to be different from place to place. But again, when we started, it was a few people in a room and we looking and you can say, oh, you know, our legislature is a little bit friendlier to some of these things. And that's unquestionably true compared to other some of the places in the country.

00:20:16:07 - 00:20:47:08
Brandon Tizol
But I will also say that when we started, we didn't have legislators on board either. We had to embark on communications campaigns, pressure campaigns, everything, but also strictly electoral campaigns to elect people that were going to carry this rate. And so I think that, you know, other places can can can hopefully see that if they start on their own, that they can that they can do something big also and really, really move the needle.

00:20:47:08 - 00:21:15:00
Brandon Tizol
And, you know, one thing I'd also say is that when talking about legislative realities, right, it's easy to look at New York and say, oh, it's a blue state. You know, they're going to move on these things. No, that is that's not that's not real. Right. Like I know preaching to the choir here. But the reality is that the entire political structure in this country is not concerned with following through for a greater good rate.

00:21:15:05 - 00:21:38:01
Brandon Tizol
We live in a country with a corporate duopoly, and there, when it comes to climate, is in kicking the can down the road and allowing, you know, their real constituency, their corporate partners to continue to profit. That's the that's the reality. There's no two ways about that in New York. You know, you can say it's blue, it's progressive, whatever you want to say.

00:21:38:03 - 00:22:00:13
Brandon Tizol
That doesn't mean anything when you talk about that dynamic. The reality is that we have been they have attempted to block us at every turn again, even when when governor hopeful place this bill in her budget to begin with. That was not in our opinion, that was not a good faith attempt to come through on the spirit of pray.

00:22:00:15 - 00:22:25:07
Brandon Tizol
It was an attempt to undermine, pray, so much so that she felt the need to steal our name, to try to push it through and even up to this point in implementation, we're not naive. We don't think that, oh, we got this through. It's going to be great from here on out. We've already had to fight a battle against Governor Hochul, trying to appoint somebody to run nypa that is not interested in implementing BPR.

00:22:25:09 - 00:22:43:17
Brandon Tizol
And you know, these are the things they were going have to deal with going forward. And I say all that to say that New York is not that different from wherever else you want to talk about. You know, we're only going to be able to move things forward if we really take on this fight with clear eyes. And that's from coast to coast, every state and beyond.

00:22:43:17 - 00:23:02:02
Brandon Tizol
Right. Because the climate crisis is not a New York thing. It's not an America thing. You know, the reality is that we're largely insulated from from a lot of the a lot of the worst outcomes that people are going to feel, you know, in the very near future. And currently, you know, so we ought to be doing this.

00:23:02:04 - 00:23:13:09
Keerti Gopal
Sure. Yeah. That kind of brings us to our last question, which is what's next right now for a public power, for GSA, for the team that's been fighting for a BPR? What are you looking at right now, if you can share?

00:23:13:11 - 00:23:16:20
Brandon Tizol
Yeah, I mean, for what wasn't.

00:23:16:22 - 00:23:18:06
Frank Cappello
Your strategy, your time.

00:23:18:06 - 00:23:39:15
Brandon Tizol
Yeah. I mean, you listen for what's next. Honestly, hopefully there's some sort of break. For some of us, it's been a long, long fight. And again, like, even when it seems like you win the fight, there always seems to be a little bit left to do and then something else happens and so on and so forth. Right. So hopefully at some point some actual arrests.

00:23:39:15 - 00:24:00:05
Brandon Tizol
But, you know, we're looking to continue on. I think I think that's the one thing that that we really have decided upon in in in our internal conversations that, you know, we're not done. You know, implementation is going to be its own fight. You know, we're up for it. That's the reality of it. We took it this far.

00:24:00:05 - 00:24:25:06
Brandon Tizol
We're not going to drop it here. We're going to keep going forward. We're going to have strategy sessions coming up really soon to to to plot out, you know, the next several years of this fight, because it's going to take, you know, the same kind of fight that we've put up for these years as the same forces continue to try to thwart what we're trying to do.

00:24:25:08 - 00:24:49:17
Brandon Tizol
And so we're going to stay at it. And, you know, as for what's next for DSA, we're always doing something. That's all I'll say. You know, I'd say that with, you know, with this year's budget and legislative session, we were able to get Barry through. But there are a number of other priorities that we weren't really able to to to claim victory on.

00:24:49:19 - 00:25:15:18
Brandon Tizol
And so that means that we have to stay we have to stay on the ball. We're still outside when it comes to issues on housing, when it comes to issues on labor, when it comes to issues, on New York State's obsession with locking up black and brown people and keeping them in jail in in undue undue conditions, you know, we're still going to be there on all those things.

00:25:15:18 - 00:25:21:14
Brandon Tizol
And and that is the reality that this struggle does not end well.

00:25:21:14 - 00:25:51:08
Frank Cappello
Brandon, it's been really wonderful talking to you. It's like Curtis said, it's really inspiring and a reminder that a lot of this stuff is just in the doing it and y'all have been really doing it for the last four years. So thank you for your work. Thank you for your time. Where can our audience find either you or public power if they want to get involved, if they want to contribute, if they want to help out in any way, where where should we direct them?

00:25:51:10 - 00:26:24:14
Brandon Tizol
I would say that you can find us on Twitter. NYC DSA underscore eco socialist ECOSOC. See, we're also a public power and why at public power and why that's another one of ours. As for me, you can find me outside like I'm doing things, you know, that's the best place to see me. Yeah. Also also also on this one, the one last thing I want to say, and I think this is important, actually.

00:26:24:19 - 00:26:25:22
Brandon Tizol
Stop.

00:26:26:00 - 00:26:39:13
Frank Cappello
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, great. Well, Brandon, again, thank you for your time. We really appreciate it. Thank you for joining us on lever time today. And quietly, thank you for bringing a much needed attention to this this big win. So thank you both.

00:26:39:15 - 00:26:40:03
Brandon Tizol
Thank you.

00:26:40:09 - 00:26:43:12
Keerti Gopal
Yeah, thanks, Brandon. I. Wow.

00:26:43:14 - 00:27:02:23

That's it for today's show. Thanks a ton for being a paid subscriber to the lever. We really could not do this work without you. If you like this episode, please pitch in to our tip jar. You can find that link in the episodes description or at lever news.com slash tip jar. Every little bit helps us do the independent journalism that we do.

00:27:03:04 - 00:27:12:15

Oh, one more thing. Be sure to like, subscribe and write a review for lever time on your favorite podcast app. Until next time. I'm David Sirota. Rock the Boat.